Where's the "Practical" in USPSA Stages

[nickforney]

'outlaw' type matches are pretty much what you are looking for.  If you wanna have a really good time look up cola warrior.  

[Tango]

believe it or not, some IDPA matches we shoot here locally are pretty athletic (run by a 40 year old "young" guy)

[HCH]

Hard as Hell 3 gun has all that. 

[Malarky112]

I think you'll find each club you go to has a certain "flavor" to their stages/matches.  Like mentioned a lot of it probably has to do with how many volunteers they have helping setup.  
Kind of off topic but Ive only been shooting matches about 4 years now and it seems like there are lots less movers and activated targets now then there were when I started, even at some of the bigger matches.

[TonytheTiger]

36 minutes ago, Malarky112 said:

Kind of off topic but Ive only been shooting matches about 4 years now and it seems like there are lots less movers and activated targets now then there were when I started, even at some of the bigger matches.

I saw that stuff a lot when I started 3 gun. I really miss those targets.

[perttime]

9 hours ago, Malarky112 said:

... it seems like there are lots less movers and activated targets now then there were when I started, even at some of the bigger matches.

 

That stuff has its downsides: sometimes mechanisms fail, re-setting takes longer.

We had a pretty simple thing at our local  Level II IPSC match: two swingers triggered by stomp pads. Resetting was fine because it was not a long stage and it was in a pretty small area. The mechanism was pretty good and there was only one failure: One competitor out of almost 150 shot a steel triggering cable.

[konkapot]

I've found that people complain about anything they perceive as "too hard."

 

I've put "too many" no shoots in a stage. People "don't like" strong hand only shooting when I've put it into stages.

 

When you feel comfortable, starting running a match and designing stages with incrementally more physicality. Then you'll have to decide how to respond to shooter complaints, or low turnout, or or or or...…….

 

I do think there's a middle ground. I personally don't think Texas stars are legal, but a 15 yd texas star to me is not unreasonable...….just because I don't like it doesn't make it "wrong."

 

A stage with 3 30 yard Texas stars? Too much.

 

Some physicality...maybe an old school Rhodesian wall, or a little further distance of movement? I don't think you'll have complaints about that.

 

A pretend Walter Mitty "Shoot out in Mogadishu" stage might be too much for most. I think most shooters want to have "fun." There's a pretty wide range of "fun" where the recreational guys can shoot a match without hurting themselves or zeroing every stage, but where guys that are more serious can use matches to track individual progress and tweak their training programs.

[Specialneeds]

Konkapot -two questions;

 

Mogadishu shoot?

 

Rhodesian wall?

 

The problem is 80% of the united states is now at the 'deadly overweight' status. Politely stated. Or -if you are candid.. their fatass and gonna OD on mcdonalds before their 35th birthday. Pardon the poor language. Though seriously.

 

I am active duty military, do a 2hr workout five times a week and stay fit.. anytime I leave post.. I see lardos. All I think is, "you all keyboard commando about standing up to an unjust government.. when was the last time you stood up for two hours?"

 

So, being a culmination of;

 

People do not like failing

People are the most overweight in any point of mankind's existance

Suit the crowd that pays to play

 

No RO is going to waste hours setting up stages for ten or twelve people to turn out.

 

However, if a person were to offer 'options' at their shoot..

 

So, say a fit shooter can hurdle a four foot barricade. Easy, yes? Well, jumping the barricade gives a -10 second time modifier.. whereas, less fit can walk through the gate which is ten feet to one side of the barricade.. for no time modifier.

 

Those options would allow more.. 'energetic and motivated persons' both the enjoyment of tunnels, walls, prone, etcettera and still allow less physically inclined to participate.

 

That all said, if I were the RO.. I would bias the stage to cater 'motivated shooters' superiors times.

 

Crawl the 20ft tunnel? -30seconds. Walk beside it and shoot supported from the end of it? 0 seconds difference. Think you can lowcrawl seven yards in less than thirty seconds?

 

I personally agree, the sport has become all about blasting easy to hit targets and a few mesh walls to direct 'flow of traffic'.

 

One poster mentioned a stage being three texas stars at 30yds. Hell yes. I shot a few stages like that at rio salado shooters club in mesa az.

 

It was three stars. Each star had one to two full sized double tap rectangle plates protecting it. Restricting the areas a shooter could knock the plates off star. The stars also were placed in a V pattern. Ten oclock, twelve oclock and two oclock. Overlapping. The back one was fuuuun!!

[RangerTrace]

On 10/20/2019 at 10:58 AM, anonymouscuban said:

 

I am fairly new to USPSA and firearms in general. I learned about USPSA when I saw an old match on YouTube. Guys sprinting for 30+ meters, shooting prone, crawling through a tunnel. Man did this look cool. It's what drew me to it.

 

I've now been shooting matches for 10 months. Albeit, only local club matches. I have experienced none of this. The longest distance I've had to move is maybe 12 yards. Most stages have maybe 3 positions. I've watched videos of recent Area and Nationals and it's much of the same.

 

Are there any matches that incorporate the stuff of yesteryear anymore? Is there a reason why we don't see stages that require more physicality? Would you guys want to see more of this?

 

Just a noob here asking you more experienced guys. Seems to me like these physical elements would make stages more interesting.

 

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

That stuff still exists, but you will need two more guns to do it......

[Intheshaw1]

16 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

That stuff still exists, but you will need two more guns to do it......

Yep, that's what free me in to the 3 gun world. I haven't done any crazy large matches yet but the matches at my club are more intense than the USPSA type matches. 

 

Even small bays can get you running around a lot depending on the positioning of the guns.

[James Abram]

You guys that want physical need to pick up a rifle and play the Tactical Games Skirmishes. Running, jumping, shooting, climbing, dragging, shooting, rolling, crawling, shooting.

https://www.northtexasmultigun.com/the-tactical-games-skirmish

They have these all over.


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[MadBomber]

Forget physical, when was the last time you shot 50 yard standards?  That really separates the men from the boys, no offense.

[Jim Watson]

13 hours ago, Specialneeds said:

 

However, if a person were to offer 'options' at their shoot..

 

Early days of The Masters at Brock's Gap, Hoover, Ala. (sorry, it was IDPA, but the concept applies) every stage had a hard fast way and an easy slow way.  A few were even "gameable" so you could show you were smarter than the designer. 

 

I am one of the old, fat, slow category and I am not climbing any walls or crawling through any tunnels.  If you surprise me with that ninja stuff, I will 10.2.10 it and probably not come back. 

[rowdyb]

OP, you need to travel then. And shoot non-USPSA matches. There are plenty of fitness and gun matches here in Texas. Texas Run and Gun, Legion and so on.

 

Edit- In sanctioned USPSA matches I have shot under a car, off of a roof, 3 cooper tunnels, prone a dozen times, standing on something wobbly a dozen times, ran 20+ yards from one position to the next, 3x lifting and carrying a kettle bell to activate a prop. So maybe 30 stages out of 400+ that I've shot had what you wanted in matches all over the usa.

 

It really is about accommodating the largest audience. Older people do most the work, run mos the clubs and have the loudest voices. If you really and truly are a fit guy, I mean look at Dave Castro of crossfit fame he loves shooting uspsa, you need to find a different peer group for shooting/fitness competitions. It is out there, but it is not going to be conveniently close to you.

Edited November 13, 2019 by rowdyb

[B_RAD]

Let’s take the Practical part out of the name. It’s not practical at all and we shouldn’t pretend it is.  It’s fun shooting. Not “I’m a navy ranger/army seal” training.if you want to scan for threats go start your own org.  Be dumb over there. 

[rowdyb]

On 10/20/2019 at 10:58 AM, anonymouscuban said:

Seems to me like these physical elements would make stages more interesting.

That's the thing, it's just one person's opinion about what is more interesting. And as long as it is a minority opinion it's unlikely to change. Nothing saying you can't be doing push ups while on deck... hahaha. Other than that, just bask in knowing your fitness is only helping you in the course of a match compared to others who aren't.

 

At one time I wanted to design a stage where to advance down range you had to climb over a pic-nic table. It was not approved by my club for safety reasons. Change the attitudes of those around you, volunteer to make a single stage with the element you like and you may see it more locally.

Edited November 13, 2019 by rowdyb

[Zincwarrior]

4 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

At one time I wanted to design a stage where to advance down range you had to climb over a pic-nic table. It was not approved by my club for safety reasons. Change the attitudes of those around you, volunteer to make a single stage with the element you like and you may see it more locally.

I can see why. That screams broken bones or ND.

[GunBugBit]

If I want to see who can run faster, I'll go to track and field events.

 

If I want to see who shoots better, I'll go to USPSA and Steel Challenge matches.

[obsessiveshooter]

Let’s take the Practical part out of the name. It’s not practical at all and we shouldn’t pretend it is.  It’s fun shooting. Not “I’m a navy ranger/army seal” training.if you want to scan for threats go start your own org.  Be dumb over there. 

What's more practical than learning to shoot accurately fast, in all sorts of positions? That's not necessarily tactical, but I do think that is practical. We definitely should not be pretending to be Tactical, and fortunately no one is pretending to be.

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[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, GunBugBit said:

If I want to see who can run faster, I'll go to track and field events.

 

If I want to see who shoots better, I'll go to USPSA and Steel Challenge matches.

 

uspsa involves more than just shooting. It also involves moving to and from shooting positions, solving problems, navigating obstacles, etc.... As long as it is reasonably connected to solving a shooting problem, I say bring on more physicality. The best shooters will still win.

[perttime]

2 hours ago, B_RAD said:

Let’s take the Practical part out of the name....

 

In some countries people have, with IPSC. Just to keep the powers that be from banning the running around with loaded guns. Generally, they call it something like Dynamic Shooting.

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, Zincwarrior said:

I can see why. That screams broken bones or ND.

Think about how pathetically diluted the human gene pool is becoming when many of the people reading this thread are inclined to agree with you.

 

Due to the horrific challenge of having to surmount a 30” tall picnic table. Which effectively comes equipped with a stair on both the ascending and descending sides.

 

That kind of thing should absolutely be in matches, perhaps with some targets only visible from atop the table.

If you have a bad knee, that’s fine. I’d gladly build you a ramp to make this kind of enjoyable obstacle plausible.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[Zincwarrior]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Think about how pathetically diluted the human gene pool is becoming when many of the people reading this thread are inclined to agree with you.

 

Due to the horrific challenge of having to surmount a 30” tall picnic table. Which effectively comes equipped with a stair on both the ascending and descending sides.

 

That kind of thing should absolutely be in matches, perhaps with some targets only visible from atop the table.

If you have a bad knee, that’s fine. I’d gladly build you a ramp to make this kind of enjoyable obstacle plausible.

 

1.  Yes, pathetic, now imagine your grandpa doing it.

2. Now imagine your grandpa doing it with a gun.

3. Now imagine your grandpa doing it for time, with a gun.

4. Now imagine your grandpa, in the hospital room...

 

I would not want to SO/RO that stage. Not a lot of sports include hurdles.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Zincwarrior

[RJH]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Think about how pathetically diluted the human gene pool is becoming when many of the people reading this thread are inclined to agree with you.

 

Due to the horrific challenge of having to surmount a 30” tall picnic table. Which effectively comes equipped with a stair on both the ascending and descending sides.

 

That kind of thing should absolutely be in matches, perhaps with some targets only visible from atop the table.

If you have a bad knee, that’s fine. I’d gladly build you a ramp to make this kind of enjoyable obstacle plausible.

 

 

While i care nothing about wheeling barrows or dragging dummies, i am all for stages like yours.  I also don't mind the occasional prone, cooper tunnel etc., but there is very little of any of that in out area.  I also don't mind 50 yard standards, so maybe i am weird

Edited November 13, 2019 by RJH

[MemphisMechanic]

32 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said:

1.  Yes, pathetic, now imagine your grandpa doing it.

2. Now imagine your grandpa doing it with a gun.

3. Now imagine your grandpa doing it for time, with a gun.

4. Now imagine your grandpa, in the hospital room...

 

I would not want to SO/RO that stage. Not a lot of sports include hurdles.

Logic like yours has whiners wanting all uprange starts deleted from the sport too.

 

Eventually everyone sits still in a chair shooting everything from their wheelchair.

 

The rest of nation’s populace whines about participation, softness, tenderness, and inclusivity for everyone.

Used to be this was the only demographic left wherein athleticism, toughness, endurance, and even pain tolerance were things to be prized.

Used to be.

 

Now it’s too hard to bend over and duck under a few sticks while manipulating a weapon.

 

How sad and soft we’ve become.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by MemphisMechanic