Limited Major dying?

[Climbhard]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:42 AM, motosapiens said:

I shot 2021 and 2022 ss nationals (and brought home 3rd place senior trophies, hooray!). Obviously when you only have 8 rounds in the gun, you'll tend to find away to make a position 7-8 rounds. i remember lots of places where I could only shoot 4-6 rounds from a single spot, then move a few steps and shoot another 2-4 rounds.

 

I bet if you shot those same stages with 15 rounds in the gun you'd find yourself shooting 12-13-14 rounds pretty frequently between reloads.

I was 7th senior.  No trophy for me.

[motosapiens]

12 minutes ago, Climbhard said:

I was 7th senior.  No trophy for me.

Good shooting! i console myself with the knowledge that the first two seniors in 2021 have 10+ national and world championships each, so they don't really count in my book, lol.

[Runswithwood1]

2 hours ago, motosapiens said:

Good shooting! i console myself with the knowledge that the first two seniors in 2021 have 10+ national and world championships each, so they don't really count in my book, lol.

You're right those dont count. The fact we all get lumped in with champion world class shooters makes me kinda wanna quit haha

[Climbhard]

9 hours ago, motosapiens said:

Good shooting! i console myself with the knowledge that the first two seniors in 2021 have 10+ national and world championships each, so they don't really count in my book, lol.

Its tough to be competitive and have a day job! LOL

[StanJ]

Looking at the rosters for my local USPSA matches, lim is definitely in decline as compared to before LO was announced.  I’m also seeing most of the lim shooters are minor and D or U class, indicating newer competitors with 9mms not wanting to load 10.  Production and SS are all but nonexistent.  
 

That’s kind of a shame.  I had a ton of fun in the iron sight divisions.  Plenty of competition.  If it continues on this trajectory it’ll be the United States Optical Shooting Association.  

[ltdmstr]

4 hours ago, StanJ said:

 If it continues on this trajectory it’ll be the United States Optical Shooting Association.  

 

We're already there.

[Makicjf]

3 hours ago, StanJ said:

Looking at the rosters for my local USPSA matches, lim is definitely in decline as compared to before LO was announced.  I’m also seeing most of the lim shooters are minor and D or U class, indicating newer competitors with 9mms not wanting to load 10.  Production and SS are all but nonexistent.  
 

That’s kind of a shame.  I had a ton of fun in the iron sight divisions.  Plenty of competition.  If it continues on this trajectory it’ll be the United States Optical Shooting Association.  

Honestly,   I believe it already is exactly what you state.

[lroy]

its kind of self fulfilling. 40 is more expensive so less people shoot it. The less people shoot it, the less free brass there is.

 

Maybe it would come back if they made it major scoring at minor power factor. Would offset the disadvantage of not having a dot. It's dead anyway, might as well make it fun. Lol

[konkapot]

I dunno about the "cost" part of this. 9mm pellets are certainly cheaper than .40 but the cost of the actual guns now is significant. $4000 for a LO gun is not uncommon. 

 

Especially now there are good values in used Limited guns....sometimes thousands of $ of savings over a 9mm gun. That adds up to a lot of pellets. 

[RJH]

32 minutes ago, konkapot said:

I dunno about the "cost" part of this. 9mm pellets are certainly cheaper than .40 but the cost of the actual guns now is significant. $4000 for a LO gun is not uncommon. 

 

Especially now there are good values in used Limited guns....sometimes thousands of $ of savings over a 9mm gun. That adds up to a lot of pellets. 

 

Brass is certainly a cost issue for me. Nine brass if I don't feel like picking up I can skip and then the next match if I feel like picking it up I can get three or four times what I shot. 40 brass I have to pick up all I can get and I still lose about half at a match, and I don't have a ton of 40 brass. If you're starting from zero, you can literally get all your brass for free if you're shooting nine very easily, but 40 you're going to be buying. And you're going to be picking that s*** up every single match even if it's a hundred degrees and you don't really want to lol. 

 

And if we're talking 2011's and being realistic, you can get brand new nines for as little as 13 or 1400 for a prodigy, or a little over two grand for a stacatto. I don't know of anybody making a 40 cal 2011 for that kind of price. Maybe bul, then  that comes with its own issues. And comparing used to new doesn't make sense because there are plenty of used 9 mm out there as well

 

All that said, I'm going to shoot limited major this weekend coming up because it's still my favorite division. But I sure don't shoot it as much as I used to 

Edited November 12, 2023 by RJH

[shred]

You're assuming that most 9x19 shooters reload.  I think that's not true for a whole lot of the weekend-warriors and yet another reason people whine about .40 Major.

 

FWIW, Rock Island sells a hicap Para-clone 40 for $1100 MSRP, metal grip and all, although if you're going to be picking brass, you might as well get the $1300 6" slide 10mm hicap for some 'I'm too manly for 9' cred.

 

Limited Major isn't for everyone.  Nothing wrong with that.  Anyone wanting to fix it, because dead, go fix Lim-10 or Production or something first.  Those are way deader.

 

[RJH]

34 minutes ago, shred said:

You're assuming that most 9x19 shooters reload.  I think that's not true for a whole lot of the weekend-warriors and yet another reason people whine about .40 Major.

 

FWIW, Rock Island sells a hicap Para-clone 40 for $1100 MSRP, metal grip and all, although if you're going to be picking brass, you might as well get the $1300 6" slide 10mm hicap for some 'I'm too manly for 9' cred.

 

Limited Major isn't for everyone.  Nothing wrong with that.  Anyone wanting to fix it, because dead, go fix Lim-10 or Production or something first.  Those are way deader.

 

 

At the last match I was at the weather was nice so I picked me up a couple of quarts of 9 mm brass. I saw no 40 brass, but I did see 10 mm LOL

[zzt]

10 hours ago, lroy said:

its kind of self fulfilling. 40 is more expensive so less people shoot it. The less people shoot it, the less free brass there is.

 

Go to your local indoor pistol range.  The one near me sells bulk ammo boxes full of brass.  $10 for 9mm, $15 for 40 and $25 for 45.  You get around 1000 of each in the box.  1.5 cents each for once fired, usually all the same headstamp, is much better than scrounging the lanes after a match.  Much easier on the back.

[lroy]

On the plus side, it seems like you can get some pretty nice 40 guns a lot cheaper now since nobody wants them. Lol

Edited November 13, 2023 by lroy

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

No indoor ranges have .40 brass pick up anymore. 
nobody shoots it ,and the only reason they did have it was the police still shot alot of ,40 before they all changed over. 
it’s a shame but .40 is the new 38 super. 

[maur]

It's definitely dying, but there are still some crazy Limited shooters at the top of the game duking it out at every major. 

[lroy]

limited optics seems like it's taking a good chunk out of open. Obviously everyone already heavily invested will stay, but a lot of builders aren't even making open guns anymore. 

[Rookie]

2022 & 2023 competitor counts by Division for the Area 2-Desert Classic...

 

Limited, Open, & Carry Optics were all down 4-5% relative to 2022 to offset the 16% that competed in the new Limited Optics Division.

 

 

[JayDee]

On 11/24/2023 at 10:54 AM, Rookie said:

2022 & 2023 competitor counts by Division for the Area 2-Desert Classic...

 

Limited, Open, & Carry Optics were all down 4-5% relative to 2022 to offset the 16% that competed in the new Limited Optics Division.

 

 

Ho-Lee Crap….. 28 single stack shooters in the same time and place! 
 

SS is coming back  

[Rookie]

12 hours ago, JayDee said:

Ho-Lee Crap….. 28 single stack shooters in the same time and place!

...Then you might want to sit down before you read the following...

 

The 2023 Western States Single Stack Classic fielded 194 "Single Stack" competitors.

[MHicks]

I've shot the WSS match several times. Some of them were about 225 shooters. Lot of fun.

[Racinready300ex]

3 hours ago, Rookie said:

...Then you might want to sit down before you read the following...

 

The 2023 Western States Single Stack Classic fielded 194 "Single Stack" competitors.

 

This shows how dead the division is. Clearly lots of people have all the gear they just don't want to use it. The only way to get them to turn out and shoot is if you don't allow the divisions they want to shoot. 

[MHicks]

11 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

This shows how dead the division is. Clearly lots of people have all the gear they just don't want to use it. The only way to get them to turn out and shoot is if you don't allow the divisions they want to shoot. 

That's true for some people. But are they really going to travel to the match to shoot what they don't like? There are also people who love shooting SS and it would be their preferred  division but not when there are so few shooting it these days. They shoot other divisions in their locals.  

[Racinready300ex]

10 minutes ago, MHicks said:

That's true for some people. But are they really going to travel to the match to shoot what they don't like? There are also people who love shooting SS and it would be their preferred  division but not when there are so few shooting it these days. They shoot other divisions in their locals.  

 

Your right, there are lots of reasons the division is dead. I didn't really say they don't like it, I like SS too. But when the only way to motivate people to shoot it is to take away all other options, it's not really a sign of a healthy division.

 

USPSA is fun with any gun so people will turn out, the only other option in this example is don't shoot. If it was reasonably close I'd dust off my SS rig and shoot it. 

[MHicks]

In my area for some years they had a SS vs Production only match. It was pretty popular. Most shooters who shoot other divisions also have Production or SS guns. But eventually they just started allowing the other divisions to get more shooters signed up.