WSB - must help tear down

[scroadkill]

So could you put "All shooters must help tear down their last stage at the end of the match before leaving" in the WSB? I'de so love to drop a few procedurals on a few guys that regularly skip out on tear down.

 

[ChuckS]

You can pretty much put whatever you want in a WSB. But, in this case, what rule would you cite for the procedural?

 

[davsco]

collect an extra $10 from everyone at registration and split the proceeds among everyone that does stay and help tear down and store.

[Racinready300ex]

16 minutes ago, davsco said:

collect an extra $10 from everyone at registration and split the proceeds among everyone that does stay and help tear down and store.

 

This would probably motivate more people to help. 

 

Maybe make it a point to thank those that help a lot publicly when scores are posted or at the next match brief. People like attention and to be recognized. Probably better to come up with ways to thank and reward those who do what you want vs threaten and punish those who don't. At least if the goal is really to get more help. 

[MHicks]

I'd start with making an announcement before the match making it very clear that shooters are expected to tear down before leaving.  If at your club stage designers get a reduced or free match, let the shooters know and point out that those others helping set up are paying just like everyone else. 

Of course shooters who are older and worked their butts off for years can be excused from some of the more taxing work. If a regular shooter who pitches in all the time needs to take off early in a rare circumstance, no problem.

If everyone has been given all this information but refuses to help then you may have to take further action but first start by making sure they've been informed.

[Racinready300ex]

It's amazing the effect of just giving someone s#!t can have too. 

 

I have a buddy that was a notoriously bad paster. We gave him s#!t all the time, now he's a mediocre paster. 

[konkapot]

This has been discussed periodically; agreed on rewarding rather than punishing. General once it becomes a Club Culture Thing "That's what we do here....we tear down the stage we finish on" it's really a non-issue. 

 

We spend a lot of effort discussing the small small small percentage of dickhead shooters here; for every Shoot/Scoot Guy there's the other 99% of his squad that tears down and helps RO etc. 

[motosapiens]

34 minutes ago, konkapot said:

We spend a lot of effort discussing the small small small percentage of dickhead shooters here; for every Shoot/Scoot Guy there's the other 99% of his squad that tears down and helps RO etc. 

 

i think this is true most places. it sure is true where I shoot. The majority of shooters are helpful.

 

Nonetheless, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a picture of the slackers who regularly bail without doing any help for setup or teardown, and posting it on FB to mock them.

[driver8M3]

6 hours ago, scroadkill said:

So could you put "All shooters must help tear down their last stage at the end of the match before leaving" in the WSB? I'de so love to drop a few procedurals on a few guys that regularly skip out on tear down.

 

No. By the time you're ready to tear down the stage all scores will have been approved. Once a score is approved it can only be changed for a few specific reasons. 

 

9.7.4 - When a score has been affirmed by both the competitor and Range Officer, the score (whether on paper or electronic device) is considered conclusive evidence that the time, scores and penalties as recorded are accurate and uncontested. The score (whether on paper or electronic device) is deemed to be definitive. It may only be changed to add penalties under Rule 8.6.2, or to correct arithmetical errors, or by mutual consent of the competitor and the originating Range Officer, or due to an arbitration decision. Changes are defined as modifications to the score sheet after both parties have signed off on the score sheet.

[Nathanb]

Is it really a problem that you want to do this?  I don’t know of any level ones that don’t require tear down upon completion. 
 

id have no problem calling someone out if they tried to shoot and scoot 

[HCH]

One of the best “thank you’s” that I ever got was a decent sized box of wet tumbled .40 brass. The MD knew I shoot a lot of limited and always helped tear down after a match and still had a 2 hour drive back home. 
 

I think the best idea is to tell everyone at the shooters meeting to tear down their last stage (assuming it’s been shot by everyone) before they leave. If the whole squad pitches in it only takes 10 minutes or so. 
 

If you try to give me a BS procedural after the match is over, I won’t be back at your match… or help tear down. 

[HCH]

1 minute ago, HCH said:

Edited July 14, 2022 by HCH

[motosapiens]

31 minutes ago, HCH said:

If you try to give me a BS procedural after the match is over, I won’t be back at your match… or help tear down. 

this would solve the problem pretty quickly if all the shoot n scoot slackers got offended and stopped showing up. I see that as an absolute win!

 

btw, I don't mean to suggest in any way that you are a slacker... I understand you were just making the point about the procedural being a bogus idea under the rules, and I agree with you on that point. But I don't care very much about hurting the feelings of the actual slackers. Thankfully there aren't very many of them where I shoot.

Edited July 14, 2022 by motosapiens

[CHA-LEE]

Keep track of the "Shoot & Scoot" offenders. Then Double, Triple, and Quadruple their entry fee as needed to motivate them to do the right thing. I have only needed to deploy this entry fee doubling process once. When they were faced with double the entry fee or stick around another 30 minutes and help out with tear down, they chose to help. Were they butt hurt about it? Absolutely. Did I care that they were offended? Absolutely not. Shape up or Ship out.....

Edited July 14, 2022 by CHA-LEE

[NoSteel]

1 min time penalty per stage for not participating…. No $$ involved and hurts more!!

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

If there people that routinely go out of there way to NOT help tear down , how do they keep getting approved to squad for the next match ?

 

 

[barry]

In 30 years of running matches only had to mention this once. Shooter asked to shoot thru last stage because had a friend visiting..hour later after match put away him and his friend were sitting in club house drinking. It was "mentioned ". Don't think I've seen him in 25 years.

[broadside72]

Many times we have the opposite problem at the ranges I shoot. Everyone knows to tear down and they all want to start before knowing the last shooter is done. Sometimes I catch people pulling up targets and props before the last shooter has pushed approve.  

But are there some that scoot right away, sure, but generally we have enough folks to break down each stage.  The build is much more work anyway so we offer free match (via refund) if you design and build your stage or $10 refund if you come out and help build/setup from close to when gates open. We don't discount folks that come late and help.

[Chills1994]

21 hours ago, scroadkill said:

So could you put "All shooters must help tear down their last stage at the end of the match before leaving" in the WSB? I'de so love to drop a few procedurals on a few guys that regularly skip out on tear down.

 

Don’t do that.

 

”Ya can’t just change horses midstream!"

 

And so you shouldn’t be changing rules at the last minute either.

 

I am old skool, so the model I was trained on was:

 

expectations

feedback

consequences

growth

 

I would send out an email or group text about a week before the match saying that ALL competitors are expected to help tear down at the end of the match.   So that sets the expectation.  In that email or text, you can be as big a hard nose or as little if you want:  “If you don’t want to help your fellow squad members tear down at the end of the match, you are not welcome here.  Please find another match that you can shoot and scoot instead.”

 

If you word it in such a way, you put the onus on the squads to police themselves.

 

Peer pressure alone and a correctly timed smart allecky remark between squad members could do more good than giving $10 off the match entry fee.

 

 

[ddc]

How about adding a selection to the Practiscore sign up?

 

Something like:

 

Select either 1 or 2:

1. When shooting has completed I will stay and help tear down the match.

2. Sorry but I am way too important to stick around and help tear down. 

[MHicks]

One our local clubs has a few choices to click when registering. 

 

I am am one of the stage designers and will be there early to set up. 

 

I will be there early to help set up.

 

I will be there for the shooters meeting and then shoot the match.

 

Not exactly that but along those lines.

Nothing about teardown though. 

[shred]

Long ago one club instituted a "$5 extra to not tear down" fee.  The shoot-n-scooters paid it, everyone else got a reminder (and free pitchers or apps at lunch).  Every now and then when somebody did need to scoot, that gave them a way to do it without feeling bad.  These days the fee should be closer to $20 probably, and the policy is long gone, but it worked well for a while.

 

[rowdyb]

Match fees are universally too low imho.

[Chills1994]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

Match fees are universally too low imho.

I agree, totally.

 

I think most competitors use USPSA match time as entertainment and social time.

 

And just for the record…I haven’t shot a match since April 2012.  And yes, I will still snoop on local match results thanks to Practiscore.  I will see some names that I remember and think “Holy _ _ _ _ !  That guy is still C / B class?LOL!”  
 

Compared to going to the movies, a local match entry fee is cheap.

[MHicks]

Thinking about it I would have to say that local monthly match fees have not gone up much compared to other prices over the last 10-20 years. And I'm not comparing to only the things that have skyrocketed. Just the normal gradual increase in costs over time.