BritinUSA Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) I don’t recall seeing these modifications in any BOD minutes... I don’t think that bylaw mandates discussion with the membership. I think it just means that the rules don’t go into effect for 3 months. Edited March 12, 2021 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 46 minutes ago, twodownzero said: I think I understand what you're getting at here, and I generally agree with the idea. I hate retreat stages and we shouldn't need a rule to eliminate them; they are dangerous for competitors and for the RO. This is partially why I find this rule change so annoying. The weight limit was a feature, not a bug of Production, and this screwed that up. It's bad enough that it introduces another piece of equipment that could be perceived as necessary for some matches, but for it also to suggest that everyone ought to have it on their lighter guns to be more competitive even if it isn't used, that is really annoying. It appears that I disagree with you on just about everything, but at least we can have a respectful conversation about it. I think retreat stages are an important part of the sport and a shooter's skillset, but I also think they require extra care from the stage designer and RO to be safe and non-dickish. I understand the concept of weight limits as applied to the original idea of production (and ss), but once you started seeing custom shop race-only guns made in quantities of 2000 (we promise!), that kinda made the weight limits stupid and counterproductive. I wonder how many serious competitors even still shoot old-school sub 30 oz duty/carry guns in production anymore. I imagine everyone is different based on strength, skill, and so forth, but for me, once I get up to around 40 oz with minor loads, extra weight has zero benefit overall, but I do definitely notice a speed/accuracy difference between 30 and 40 oz. I'll never put a flashlight on any of the guns I currently own, but if I was still rocking the xdm in CO, I might very well try a flashlight instead of spending $1500 on a custom shop race-only cz. I'd be very interested to see how big the difference was. anyway, this has been a very interesting thread. Some whining and dumb points, but also lots of good points brought up that I think will eventually have to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, ChuckS said: One of the first uses that I discovered when I put a DAA magnet on the front of my open rig was to stick to a friends pickup truck. Or, stand up from a metal folding chair and take it with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Or, stand up from a metal folding chair and take it with you... Done that, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurm Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Or, stand up from a metal folding chair and take it with you... I am very much looking forward to seeing that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, cheby said: Done that, lol Yep, you're like WTF? Trying to walk with a folding chair, not folded, stuck to your side, knocking crap over, and causing a great amount of laughter from your squad mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Yep, you're like WTF? Trying to walk with a folding chair, not folded, stuck to your side, knocking crap over, and causing a great amount of laughter from your squad mates. I may not be good but I'm entertaining..... BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 33 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Or, stand up from a metal folding chair and take it with you... Yeah, but there was the time that I shot a stage where you had to carry an ammo can and place it on a table at the end of the stage. The next time they used an ammo can, it had more rocks in it. But, not enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessiveshooter Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I'd like to epoxy an LED light onto a brass magwell for my WML. Even if it didn't make a funnel, it will make the ideal grip more repeatable and puts weight in the ideal spot on a polymer pistol. Tell me why I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, obsessiveshooter said: I'd like to epoxy an LED light onto a brass magwell for my WML. Even if it didn't make a funnel, it will make the ideal grip more repeatable and puts weight in the ideal spot on a polymer pistol. Tell me why I can't. Welp. That’s that. I’m definitely making a “WML” that mounts to the bottom of my G34 grip, that just happens to encompass the magwell area in a flared way. But seriously, I feel like USPSA is going to end up having to issue ANOTHER statement regarding where the WML can be mounted. Lulz. This is clown shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 100% someone’s going to find a way to take the SJC weights, pop a tiny hole and put an LED in it. Heck, you could even machine the thumb rest into it (instead of bolting it on) and I don’t know how anyone could stop you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 So I guess this is the future of "Production" division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I confess I’m conflicted about all these changes; On one hand I think the sport is being watered down to appeal to the lowest common denominator. On the other hand I don’t shoot any more, and really should not care. On the whole I’m glad I quit when I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: I think the sport is being watered down to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Absolute fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 11 hours ago, cheby said: Not sure what you mean. It didn't matter where the magazine came from at make ready. I had an RO a few years ago who tried that on me, it was easy to object and overrule It was stupid, but it WAS the rule. https://nroi.org/ufaqs/can-i-use-a-magnet-in-production/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 5 hours ago, HCH said: It was stupid, but it WAS the rule. https://nroi.org/ufaqs/can-i-use-a-magnet-in-production/ Hmmm... Looks like you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 14 hours ago, Ssanders224 said: 100% someone’s going to find a way to take the SJC weights, pop a tiny hole and put an LED in it. Heck, you could even machine the thumb rest into it (instead of bolting it on) and I don’t know how anyone could stop you. If the "thumbrest" happens to activate the LED I don't know why it couldn't be bolted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheshaw1 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, bofe954 said: If the "thumbrest" happens to activate the LED I don't know why it couldn't be bolted on. I was thinking about that too. A thumbrest that activates the light as well as an on/off switch elsewhere so you can turn it off if you don't want to activate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I am sure SJC will make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVRSE Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 3:55 AM, stick said: Is the change to appease the timmies or stop the gamers from gaming? Someone please help me understand why everyone is up in arms over a light mounted on a gun? How does that help you? I know people are going to use it as a way to game the rules by filling it with lead to control recoil...but seriously? I honestly think that moves like these are to make uspsa more appealing to the timmy crowd considering the rise in popularity in events like the "tactical games". To the wider gun owner community event like the tactical games are sexy looking with the battle belts and plate carriers and I fear that uspsa will decline in popularity compared to events that are "crossfit with guns". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 For those who seem to have questioned when (or if) lasers have been allowed in Open Division I had to hunt a little ... From my old copy of the USPSA Rules (7th Edition 1995): Quote US 7.03 SIGHTS - There shall be no restriction on type of sights in Open division. The use of optical, laser, or electronic sights in Limited division is strictly prohibited. Ever since then, when reviewing the rules for Open, the key phrase has been "Optical/electronic sights permitted ... Yes." (Reminder, in 1995 there were two and ONLY two divisions!) I think it abundantly clear lasers qualify as an "optical/electronic sight." I sincerely doubt the reason no one uses lasers on their Open rig is by accident. I promise it's been tried and folks found it really didn't work worth a ... darn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 WSB Question: In a ‘dark house’ stage, a small hand-held flashlight is available for use. Could the WSB indicate that a competitor can either use the supplied flashlight (or one of their own)? If so, in this scenario a competitor with a mounted light would have a significant advantage over a competitor that had to hold a flashlight in their hand while shooting. In this case does it essentially push EVERY competitor to get a WML mounted on their gun to avoid the potential disadvantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: WSB Question: In a ‘dark house’ stage, a small hand-held flashlight is available for use. Could the WSB indicate that a competitor can either use the supplied flashlight (or one of their own)? If so, in this scenario a competitor with a mounted light would have a significant advantage over a competitor that had to hold a flashlight in their hand while shooting. In this case does it essentially push EVERY competitor to get a WML mounted on their gun to avoid the potential disadvantage? That would be absolutely legal for a WSB .... However, given Troy's wording in the article posted a couple of days ago, one wouldn't even need to do that. Simply provide a flashlight for anyone to use and remain silent on whether or not the shooter could use his WML. As the WSB did not prevent use of a WML, it's use would be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 So in this scenario a competitor who wants to be competitive would need to have a WML, it’s not mandated but it’s necessary to achieve a good result. So if attending a match with a dark house stage, a WML becomes essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: So in this scenario a competitor who wants to be competitive would need to have a WML, it’s not mandated but it’s necessary to achieve a good result. So if attending a match with a dark house stage, a WML becomes essential. I posted this is another discussion on the same subject: "Welcome to the 2022 Surefire Production Nationals with 6 low light stages..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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