NROI states a rules clarification is coming re: magnets, flashlights

[Zincwarrior]

I wonder if this will actually have the effect of increasing the number of Production shooters, especially with Glocks/M&P types.

[B_RAD]

57 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

it's no more asinine than allowing heavy race-only guns like the shadow 2 or legion. this actually evens the playing field back up so people can add some weight to actual duty/carry guns that weren't built solely for racing.

You keep saying this “race only” thing.  
 

 

whats “race’ish” about the shadow 2 and the legion?  The weight?

 

quit telling shooters that might not know better that their gun is at a disadvantage. Everyone knows it’s recoil spring weight that’s the secret!

Edited March 12, 2021 by B_RAD

[B_RAD]

44 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said:

I wonder if this will actually have the effect of increasing the number of Production shooters, especially with Glocks/M&P types.

This was done with the thought that more people will come and join in the fun now that their gear is on an equal playing field. 
 

 

Purely speculation here but I expect more people will not feel the need to buy heavy guns as much as they did previously.
 

 

Will the new shooters joining the sport be another 10k new shooters or will it be another 200 nationwide?  My bet is it’ll be closer to 200. That only come out once or twice. Then 90% never come back. Cause they won’t like getting beat by the more skilled shooter. 
 

but at least the rules were changed so “they can be competitive with their carry gear “.  In theory 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by B_RAD

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

 

it's no more asinine than allowing heavy race-only guns like the shadow 2 or legion. this actually evens the playing field back up so people can add some weight to actual duty/carry guns that weren't built solely for racing.

 

To be honest these rules will change nothing.

 

They will not bring more timmies into the sport.  Most of them will look for a different excuse.  Most of those that want to be here are already here.

 

Finishing orders at level 1, 2, and 3 matches will not be affected to any degree of statistical significance by people hanging s#!t on their guns or moving pouches around in radical changes.

 

For the record, I compete with one of those "disadvantaged" plastic duty guns and will not be buying anything to snap to it.

Edited March 12, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[motosapiens]

49 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

You keep saying this “race only” thing.  
 

 

whats “race’ish” about the shadow 2 and the legion?  The weight?

 

the weight, the sights, and the marketing are all directed exactly at competition shooters. Literally no one is saying "hey, i'd like to concealed carry a gun that is 50oz empty and has big sharp sights.

[cheby]

20 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

They will not bring more timmies into the sport.  Most of them will look for a different excuse.  Most of those that want to be here are already here.

 

Finishing orders at level 1, 2, and 3 matches will not be affected to any degree of statistical significance by people hanging s#!t on their guns or moving pouches around in radical changes.

 

I'd agree with this 

[motosapiens]

18 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

To be honest these rules will change nothing.

 

They will not bring more timmies into the sport.  Most of them will look for a different excuse.  Most of those that want to be here are already here.

 

Finishing orders at level 1, 2, and 3 matches will not be affected to any degree of statistical significance by people hanging s#!t on their guns or moving pouches around in radical changes.

 

 

I pretty much agree with you..... Of course if it won't change the results, and it will give some people a little more flexibility to make their gun/gear work for them, it sounds like a good change, right? I can't think of any reason to be against it unless it turns out that it will be impossible to win or place without a flashlight on your gun.... and I'm pretty certain that won't happen.

 

As we saw in Limited nats a few months ago, a guy with a crappy plastic gun and no frame-weight and no flashlight was able to beat all the gm's and m's running 50+ oz custom wonder guns. Maybe the infinity and atlas shooters would have beat him if they only had a light......

[B_RAD]

7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

the weight, the sights, and the marketing are all directed exactly at competition shooters. Literally no one is saying "hey, i'd like to concealed carry a gun that is 50oz empty and has big sharp sights.

You are correct about nobody carrying it.

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

2 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

 unless it turns out that it will be impossible to win or place without a flashlight on your gun.... and I'm pretty certain that won't happen.

 

 

Define impossible. Thinking about the shoot house in FP where nationals is regularly. I can see a light being a advantage on that stage with iron sights. So if you were a super squader would you go into nationals knowing you may give up some points to the other top guys on that stage and assume you'll make it up somewhere else? Might that bleed over into the lower classes? 

 

I could see lights becoming pretty common, especially at indoor matches.

 

 

 

[twodownzero]

34 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

To be honest these rules will change nothing.

 

They will not bring more timmies into the sport.  Most of them will look for a different excuse.  Most of those that want to be here are already here.

 

Finishing orders at level 1, 2, and 3 matches will not be affected to any degree of statistical significance by people hanging s#!t on their guns or moving pouches around in radical changes.

 

For the record, I compete with one of those "disadvantaged" plastic duty guns and will not be buying anything to snap to it.

 

Although I'm primarily a single stack shooter, I do shoot limited and I will continue to keep my mags on my side in all  divisions.  I agree with everything you're saying there.

 

I do wish we could get rid of the rifles at pistol matches, welfare open, this nonsense, and limited-10 though.  We should be looking at ways to eliminate divisions and simplify our rules, not add more.

[Racinready300ex]

1 minute ago, twodownzero said:

 

Although I'm primarily a single stack shooter, I do shoot limited and I will continue to keep my mags on my side in all  divisions.  I agree with everything you're saying there.

 

I do wish we could get rid of the rifles at pistol matches, welfare open, this nonsense, and limited-10 though.  We should be looking at ways to eliminate divisions and simplify our rules, not add more.

 

Lol get rid of welfare open? It's only the most popular division now, but let's keep the 10 single stack shooters. Not bias at all there. 

[Eric802]

Allowing lights on pistols might attract a few new shooters, but the reality is that their pistols were already probably fine for Production if they just took the light off.  I can't imagine there will be a mass of new competitors out there who were really, really just hating the idea of taking that light off for a match.  If they wanted to compete, they could've been doing it already. 

[cheby]

20 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

I can't think of any reason to be against it unless it turns out that it will be impossible to win or place without a flashlight on your gun.... and I'm pretty certain that won't happen.

 

I actually not sure about that. I have a feeling that the low light stages are coming. 

 

BTW, that guy with the "crappy plastic gun" who won the limited nationals last year is one of the most vocal critics of the recent rule changes. Perhaps he knows something that others don't?

[HCH]

19 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Lol get rid of welfare open? It's only the most popular division now, but let's keep the 10 single stack shooters. Not bias at all there. 

But the cumulative age of all the CO shooters, and all the SS shooters are the same 

 

I might adjust my SS rig an inch forward on the mags and a inch or so on the holster.... I really dont see it changing anything. 

 

Also, before the rule change it was pretty easy for an RO to see of someone was out of compliance for a division, although I will miss bumping people to open for loading off a magnet at make ready 

[motosapiens]

25 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Define impossible. Thinking about the shoot house in FP where nationals is regularly. I can see a light being a advantage on that stage with iron sights.

 

a) I don't think a light would be an advantage in that stage.

b) i strongly suspect (based on troy's clarifications) that the wsb will be written to specifically prohibit the use of lights on that stage.

Edited March 12, 2021 by motosapiens

[motosapiens]

11 minutes ago, cheby said:

I actually not sure about that. I have a feeling that the low light stages are coming. 

 

see above. I don't think it will be an advantage, and I think the wsb will prohibit the use of lights anyway.

[cheby]

1 minute ago, HCH said:

although I will miss bumping people to open for loading off a magnet at make ready 

Not sure what you mean.  It didn't matter where the magazine came from at make ready. I had an RO a few years ago who tried that on me, it was easy to object and overrule 

[cheby]

4 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 think the wsb will prohibit the use of lights anyway.

I hope so

[SGT_Schultz]

34 minutes ago, twodownzero said:

I do wish we could get rid of welfare open

 

In my region open trails CO by a significant margin.  If popularity is your metric for what to cut, Open gets my vote to go onto the chopping block.

[SGT_Schultz]

9 minutes ago, cheby said:

Not sure what you mean.  It didn't matter where the magazine came from at make ready. I had an RO a few years ago who tried that on me, it was easy to object and overrule 

 

The course of fire begins at make ready.  If you drew a mag from a magnet you were then in open.

Edited March 12, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[twodownzero]

3 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

In my region open trails CO by a significant margin.  If popularity is your metric for what to cut, Open gets my vote to go onto the chopping block.

 

Everything CO offers already existed in Open.  Keeping Open and axing welfare open lets everyone play.  The opposite does not.

[twodownzero]

38 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Lol get rid of welfare open? It's only the most popular division now, but let's keep the 10 single stack shooters. Not bias at all there. 

 

Dunno why it'd matter to you, considering you live in a state where the equipment needed to be competitive in welfare open isn't legal to possess.

[SGT_Schultz]

Just now, twodownzero said:

 

Everything CO offers already existed in Open.  Keeping Open and axing welfare open lets everyone play.  The opposite does not.

 

You must be the only person in the world who thinks that.

 

I'm not even going to debate this.  Carry Optics is here to stay despite your (or anyone else's) wishful thinking.

[SGT_Schultz]

26 minutes ago, cheby said:

I have a feeling that the low light stages are coming.

 

Yeah, something that requires solid walls all over the place is going to be commonplace.

 

LOL

[twodownzero]

3 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

You must be the only person in the world who thinks that.

 

I'm not even going to debate this.  Carry Optics is here to stay despite your (or anyone else's) wishful thinking.

If you hit the search box, when carry optics wasn't even yet authorized, there were plenty of people who were of the position that carry optics was already legal/allowed--in Open!

 

What division was created out of a perceived need to allow equipment that was already allowed in another division?

 

You can refuse to debate all you want, the fact is that Carry Optics was called "Open" for decades until people wanted special treatment, and so now we have Open and Welfare Open.