NROI states a rules clarification is coming re: magnets, flashlights

[mreed911]

2 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

This is why I think they should move Production/CO into a Modified division (everything in a box) and hit the RESET button on Prod/Prod Optics. 

 

So no division for 10rd states?

 

And equal playing field for iron sights and optics?

 

2 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

...form a new regional organization. A few years ago this would have been laughable, but now there may be enough members upset with the new rules to make it viable.

 

https://asi-usa.org/about/

 

 

[echotango]

3 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

 

 

https://asi-usa.org/about/

 

 

Hard pass. 

[Racinready300ex]

On 4/30/2021 at 4:43 PM, BritinUSA said:

This is why I think they should move Production/CO into a Modified division (everything in a box) and hit the RESET button on Prod/Prod Optics. 
 

But they won’t… 
 

So another (just as unlikely) option would be for IPSC to kick USPSA out and form a new regional organization. A few years ago this would have been laughable, but now there may be enough members upset with the new rules to make it viable.

 

Is anything stopping people starting up clubs using IPSC rules instead of USPSA rules? Other that the fact that most shooters wont have legal equipment. 

[B_RAD]

On 4/30/2021 at 3:43 PM, BritinUSA said:

This is why I think they should move Production/CO into a Modified division (everything in a box) and hit the RESET button on Prod/Prod Optics. 
 

But they won’t… 

No on the modified stupid stuff!  Yes on reset but to factory default. 

 

 

 

On 4/30/2021 at 3:43 PM, BritinUSA said:

 

So another (just as unlikely) option would be for IPSC to kick USPSA out and form a new regional organization. A few years ago this would have been laughable, but now there may be enough members upset with the new rules to make it viable.

Yes!  

[MikeBurgess]

26 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Is anything stopping people starting up clubs using IPSC rules instead of USPSA rules? Other that the fact that most shooters wont have legal equipment. 

we have talked about doing some IPSC matches but the fact that of the 100+ regular shooters maybe 10 have guns and hear that are legal is a pretty big stumbling block.

 

 

[RJH]

Idk, I don't see any advantage to ipsc over uspsa

[B_RAD]

7 minutes ago, RJH said:

Idk, I don't see any advantage to ipsc over uspsa

Getting away from the constant jacking up the rules?

 

though, I wonder if IPSC jacks with theirs just as much?

[waktasz]

Production Optics and Production Optics light.

Production division with race holsters, but no internal spring changes allowed and minimum trigger pull weights. 

Standard division has a box to fit in and shorter mags? 

I hate it all. 

[RJH]

10 minutes ago, waktasz said:

Production Optics and Production Optics light.

Production division with race holsters, but no internal spring changes allowed and minimum trigger pull weights. 

Standard division has a box to fit in and shorter mags? 

I hate it all. 

I agree with all of this and add: can't leave the shooting are without penalty 

Edited May 3, 2021 by RJH

[RJH]

59 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Getting away from the constant jacking up the rules?

 

though, I wonder if IPSC jacks with theirs just as much?

I don't know.  But i do know that a few years ago everyone was pooping on the higher ups in ipsc, i think now it has just cycled to uspsa and since we are on a predominantly uspsa centric forum, that is what we hear. 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by RJH

[waktasz]

The person there that ran their forum and acted like he was king of the world is no longer with IPSC so that has died down.

[PatJones]

1 hour ago, waktasz said:

Production division with race holsters, but no internal spring changes allowed and minimum trigger pull weights.

 

If my memory is correct, USPSA passed a rule requiring minimum trigger weights in production about 10 years ago. Everyone who spent a couple hundred bucks to make their M&Ps unsafe had a cow, and the rule was withdrawn.

 

Two be fair, a minimum trigger weight in production division would have helped keep things closer to "factory".

[mreed911]

5 minutes ago, PatJones said:

 

to make their M&Ps unsafe

 

Unsafe?

[RJH]

1 hour ago, mreed911 said:

 

Unsafe?

Heavily tweaked M&P triggers have been known to go off in a holster and shoot people in the leg. That's not to say that another gun wouldn't have the same issue

Edited May 3, 2021 by RJH

[Racinready300ex]

A few of these new striker guns with 2 lbs triggers and no real safety don't seem all that different then running a SA gun with the safety off. 

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, B_RAD said:

Getting away from the constant jacking up the rules?

 

though, I wonder if IPSC jacks with theirs just as much?

 

i always build a stage for our monthly matches, and I talk to alot of shooters there. I have heard zero complaints about the rules changes from anyone local. Most people either don't care, or they like the new rules. It seems to just be a handful of the same old malcontents complaining on the internet.

[ChuckS]

59 minutes ago, PatJones said:

 

If my memory is correct, USPSA passed a rule requiring minimum trigger weights in production about 10 years ago. Everyone who spent a couple hundred bucks to make their M&Ps unsafe had a cow, and the rule was withdrawn.

 

Two be fair, a minimum trigger weight in production division would have helped keep things closer to "factory".

A proposal was put forth (perhaps during the 2007 time frame but the PDF that gets hits for "trigger" was not rendered correctly and the hits can not be read) but never was put in place, I just remember that Mike was President and Endersby was Area 2 Director. 

[mreed911]

35 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

A few of these new striker guns with 2 lbs triggers and no real safety don't seem all that different then running a SA gun with the safety off. 

 

If it seems that way, it's because you don't understand the safety systems on striker guns.  Very different from a Series 70-style SA gun with the safety off... more like a Series 80.

[B_RAD]

20 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

i always build a stage for our monthly matches, and I talk to alot of shooters there. I have heard zero complaints about the rules changes from anyone local. Most people either don't care, or they like the new rules. It seems to just be a handful of the same old malcontents complaining on the internet.

So, you’re saying because of you helping building one stage at your local and then talking to other shooters at that local equates to changing the rules every year is a good thing?

 

cool story

[RJH]

1 minute ago, B_RAD said:

So, you’re saying because of you helping building one stage at your local and then talking to other shooters at that local equates to changing the rules every year is a good thing?

 

cool story

 

I also haven't heard any griping at the local level, but to be fair most matches i go to have been rained out since the rule change.  Have you heard many complaints at your local matches? 

 

 

Also aren't rule changes allowed every 2 years or so? And if that is right, i wonder when the last rule changes happened?  (I could be completely misremembering the rule change rules though)

[Sarge]

45 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

i always build a stage for our monthly matches, and I talk to alot of shooters there. I have heard zero complaints about the rules changes from anyone local. Most people either don't care, or they like the new rules. It seems to just be a handful of the same old malcontents complaining on the internet.

Thanks for helping keep matches going.

  In my experience the vast majority of local shooters rarely keep up with many changes let alone care about them. I think there are indeed malcontents out there but I’ll bet there are more “students of the game” who have issues with rules changes being implemented without zero concern for, or input from the membership.

[B_RAD]

23 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

I also haven't heard any griping at the local level, but to be fair most matches i go to have been rained out since the rule change.  Have you heard many complaints at your local matches? 

 

 

Also aren't rule changes allowed every 2 years or so? And if that is right, i wonder when the last rule changes happened?  (I could be completely misremembering the rule change rules though)

Sigh.....(at this topic. Not you). 
 

I’ve heard a lot of complaints. Not really keeping track of where they come form. Though, I’ll say that most of the people shooting the local monthly matches aren’t in the against crowd. Also, it’s not always that every rule change is bad. I don’t have an issue with every time a rule gets changed/adjusted/clarified. I personally just think the divs should be more separated and I guess that really just means I think Prod should be off the shelf with little to no mods. That’s just my opinion. Doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. Yes, I get it..... it’s hard to keep up with what’s what and legal and factory so I get it. I don’t care about making rule changes so X gun is competitive with Z gun. Let the shooter choose. If you don’t like one gun because it’s weighs less, then choose another gun. Anyways, not trying to get back on all this. Someone just made a comment directed at me so I responded. 
 

I realize that I’m not always right and my ideas aren’t best just because they’re mine. I might like them but that doesn’t make them the best. That’s the issue we have now in this sport. Everyone thinks the thoughts that pop up in their heads are the best ideas and the way thing should be done. Instead of realizing that’s their preference and not always a great idea or way to do things. 
 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by B_RAD

[B_RAD]

5 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Thanks for helping keep matches going.

  In my experience the vast majority of local shooters rarely keep up with many changes let alone care about them. I think there are indeed malcontents out there but I’ll bet there are more “students of the game” who have issues with rules changes being implemented without zero concern for, or input from the membership.

“the majority of members don’t have an issue with these changes so this ok”

 

If you hear that, be cautious. 
 

 

[Racinready300ex]

45 minutes ago, mreed911 said:

 

If it seems that way, it's because you don't understand the safety systems on striker guns.  Very different from a Series 70-style SA gun with the safety off... more like a Series 80.

 

 

I don't recall saying anything about how the gun works. Maybe you don't understand my point.

 

Side note, I believe GG wont put a pre-travel adjustment on their triggers because it'll bypass the internal safety. Ever see a 320 with zero pre travel fail equipment check? I haven't. 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Racinready300ex

[Hdiamond]

On 4/30/2021 at 3:47 PM, mreed911 said:

 

So no division for 10rd states?

 

 

 

 

I get frustrated whenever I hear this myth that we need special divisions for those states. Rule 3.3.1 handles this across all divisions. L10 was started as a place to send the Single Stacks before Single Stack. Production was started for off the shelf guns, not to give 10-round states a division to play with. The capacity was an equalizer across a wide variety of models.