When no one in the squad wants to RO

[Sandbagger123]

what can a MD do?  i have been on a few squads in the past that no one, including myself wanted to RO.  there is no compensation for Ro'ing.  in this situation, what can the MD do?   can he force people to RO?   

[Matt1]

I guess everyone in the squad could just go home without shooting [emoji2369]


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[Matt1911]

Sounds like a pretty crappy squad if nobody is willing to even help out as an R.O. 

I'm guessing that squad doesn't help set up or tear down either. 

This sport needs a lot of volunteers to keep it going. 

[Rnlinebacker]

what can a MD do?  i have been on a few squads in the past that no one, including myself wanted to RO.  there is no compensation for Ro'ing.  in this situation, what can the MD do?   can he force people to RO?   

everyone should've take that soft sissy attitude home with them. USPSA is a privilege if you have it in your area. Some matches can afford to give the RO a free match and others simply cannot. There's medications for hormonal imbalances so people can get back to a normal life that doesn't include so much thirst for recognition. Please everyone in that squad call a doctor and get some help [emoji1787]

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[EEH]

write all names down and make sure not to squad with them again. Then go to another squad and help as normal.

[Sandbagger123]

43 minutes ago, Matt1911 said:

Sounds like a pretty crappy squad if nobody is willing to even help out as an R.O. 

I'm guessing that squad doesn't help set up or tear down either. 

This sport needs a lot of volunteers to keep it going. 

ok. lets say no one on the squad is certified or experienced enough to RO.  what options does the MD have?

[CHA-LEE]

There are a lot of factors to consider before an accurate suggestion can be made. Is this a matter of there not being any certified RO's? Or are there certified RO's on the squad but they simply don't want to RO? As an MD do you mandate that X amount of RO's must be on a squad for it to be a valid squad? As an MD the success and failure of your match is 100% in your control. You need to deploy requirements that facilitate a smooth running match that will minimize issues. Balancing the squads with a sufficient amount of RO's is just one part of the match management effort. Online self squading is a nice option for customers so they can squad with their buddies. But NONE of those people are actually making squading decisions to ensure that the squads have enough RO's. Its up to the MD to ensure that happens. 

 

There are very few club matches that can afford to have dedicated RO's that do nothing but officiate. Club matches require volunteer effort from the competitors to help make it all happen. If you have a group of local shooters that think your club match is a 100% consumer product where everything is provided for them, including ROing, then that is the first issue to fix. I make it simple to understand for my local club match customers. A club match is a volunteer driven event. If you are too lazy to get onboard with that requirement and won't help make it happen, then don't come to my match. 

[RJH]

1 minute ago, Sandbagger123 said:

ok. lets say no one on the squad is certified or experienced enough to RO.  what options does the MD have?

 

You  don't have to be certified, and if no one is that experienced he should put a couple of experienced shooters on the squad.  

 

As for not liking to RO, i used to enjoy it, but have come to the conclusion that i would rather just tape.  However, I will RO if needed, and won't even complain.  

[CHA-LEE]

1 minute ago, Sandbagger123 said:

ok. lets say no one on the squad is certified or experienced enough to RO.  what options does the MD have?

 

As the MD, why on earth would you allow a squad to happen with nobody on it willing or able to RO? When that happens at my matches, I liquidate that squad of deadbeats and put them on other squads that have a enough RO's to run the squad effectively. When they bitch about being moved, I tell them they have two options. Option 1 - Start ROing so you can help make the match happen, or Option 2 - Consumer Shooters don't get a choice in their squading if they are not willing to work.

[aandabooks]

We look at our squads and make sure that we have experienced ROs on all of the squads.  I have never run into an issue where no one on a squad is willing to RO.  Level 1 matches means that the squad needs to work together to make it through the match.  People need to step up and get the ROing, pasting and scoring done.  

[pjb45]

2 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

There are a lot of factors to consider before an accurate suggestion can be made. Is this a matter of there not being any certified RO's? Or are there certified RO's on the squad but they simply don't want to RO? As an MD do you mandate that X amount of RO's must be on a squad for it to be a valid squad? As an MD the success and failure of your match is 100% in your control. You need to deploy requirements that facilitate a smooth running match that will minimize issues. Balancing the squads with a sufficient amount of RO's is just one part of the match management effort. Online self squading is a nice option for customers so they can squad with their buddies. But NONE of those people are actually making squading decisions to ensure that the squads have enough RO's. Its up to the MD to ensure that happens. 

 

There are very few club matches that can afford to have dedicated RO's that do nothing but officiate. Club matches require volunteer effort from the competitors to help make it all happen. If you have a group of local shooters that think your club match is a 100% consumer product where everything is provided for them, including ROing, then that is the first issue to fix. I make it simple to understand for my local club match customers. A club match is a volunteer driven event. If you are too lazy to get onboard with that requirement and won't help make it happen, then don't come to my match. 

As usual, Charlie cracks me up.  He is spot on.

Fortunately, I started shooting in a club where everyone was expected to RO or run the board.Period.  But then Rod and Cheryl Current were among the founders of Action Shooting.  You participate!   Add in Tuesday Night Steel at Rio and you learn how to RO.  

If you don't help Don't show up.

[MikeBurgess]

I'm blessed, the matches locally are probably close to 50% certified RO or higher. The one time I had a squad that was light and didnt have any certified ROs they froze for a couple minutes at the beginning of the match, until I pointed out that several of them had been shooting for a year or more and knew enough to do the job, they all jumped in and got to work and the day went off without a hitch. Next TO class we held almost that entire squad attended.

 

 

 

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[JonasAberg]

Where I'm from, it's pretty much understood that everyone helps any way they can; patching targets, setting plates, taking down scores and RO:ing. The exception being if you're getting ready to do your run and often (but not always) if you just finished and want to reload your mags. There's simply no way to run a match pretty much at any level if people started saying they don't want to RO.

 

If it's a club match and there aren't enough certified RO's, then the job falls on the most experienced shooters.

[EEH]

Sometime I shoot 4 matches a month,thank goodness I don’t think I ever run into this problem . Maybe it’s our match director doing a good job, that’s the job I wouldn’t want. So thank you all MD here in sc and N.C. where I shoot. Even at 70 I never go to a match and don’t expect not to work. 

[Joe4d]

Unable, thats a MD issue. Shoulda looked at squads and spread some folks around in one way or another.
Unwilling ? yeh thats just wrong. As a MD I might accidentally start losing some registrations

[stick]

Most clubs have regular shooters with some new faces showing up from time to time.  The MD usually has a pretty good idea of the shooters on the squad.  He/she can usually quickly determine who will RO.

[Hi-Power Jack]

My local clubs all begin with assigning "the RO buckets" to people willing and  qualified to RO.

 

Then, the squads fill on one of those squads.

 

Problem solved.

 

Not enough "willing, qualified RO's", no problem - fewer squads - only one willing RO ?

That simply means only one squad.

 

Easy.      

[rowdyb]

I've had this happen once. (I'm not an RO but I feel comfortable saying the correct range commands and watching safety. I'm definitely not a rules resource hahaha)

Got to the bay with the squad and everyone just kinda mills around waiting for someone to take charge. Lots of walking the stage and kinda staring around, looking for the leader. Nothing.

I'm never in a hurry on match day so I just sit and watch as well, as an experiment. It was crazy. NO ONE was going to do anything. It took the md coming by and saying "why is no shooting coming from this bay?!?!" Then a bunch of arguing and talking and such and enough arm twisting got people going.

 

Kinda off topic, what I find interesting is when I go new places and they will not allow anyone to run shooters who is not an official RO. It always shocks me, as I've been on many many squads over the years that didn't have a single certified RO.

[nasty618]

The extreme opposite of the "nobody wants to RO" and "MD doesnt have enough certified ROs on squads" problem is a club that explicitly doesn't want outside certified and experienced ROs to run shooters and imposes their own additional vetting criteria on them.  They instead have their own trusted and vetted (but sometimes not certified) ROs running the timer...  Which is fine i guess.  But personally, i think one of the greatest gifts an invested and more-than-casual competitor can get from a local match is a certified RO who gives proper range commands and scores targets correctly.  I dont want to go to battle for every hit that "doesnt break the perf" and have to explain the scoring rules every time there is an attempt to rob a shooter of an alpha by a "club vetted" RO.  

 

Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon or is this a unique one-off situation that i ran into?

Edited August 20, 2019 by nasty618

[zzt]

I routinely shoot USPSA at four clubs.  The MDs handle the problem differently.  One club allows you to register, but not squad.  They ask if you are a certified RO at Practiscore registration.  Then they allow all the ROs to squad, with the expectation they will do so evenly throughout the squads.  After that, shooters are allowed to squad.

 

A second club asks if you are a certified RO at registration, but does not do a good job of balancing them.  Once I was the only RO on a squad of 15.  I was exhausted by the end of the day.  None of the other shooters had ever run the timer and were reluctant to do so.  I shot last on each stage and did get one guy t run me.  Now, at that club, I make sure to squad where there is already at least one RO.

 

A third club asks if you are a certified RO, or experienced enough to run the timer.  If they are short of ROs on a squad, they will ask one or two ROs to move.  It's rare that I am asked to move, because there are so many certified ROs shooting those matches there are usually three or more on each squad.

 

The fourth club doesn't ask and lets everyone squad where they want, except the wait list.  They get a choice, but balancing the squads comes first.  There have been occasions where there was no RO on a squad and the MD moved to that squad to run the shooters.

 

I've never run into the OP's scenario.  The one time no one wanted to run shooters was not because they were lazy.  They were scared to because of lack of experience.

[zzt]

35 minutes ago, nasty618 said:

Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon or is this a unique one-off situation that i ran into?

 

My home club is like that.  They don't run sanctioned matches and have their own criteria for selecting their ROs.  I'm fine with that, because the pistol range is actually a 27 lane bullseye range and special rules apply.

[CHA-LEE]

35 minutes ago, nasty618 said:

The extreme opposite of the "nobody wants to RO" and "MD doesnt have enough certified ROs on squads" problem is a club that explicitly doesn't want outside certified and experienced ROs to run shooters and imposes their own additional vetting criteria on them.  They instead have their own trusted and vetted (but sometimes not certified) ROs running the timer...  Which is fine i guess.  But personally, i think one of the greatest gifts an invested and more-than-casual competitor can get from a local match is a certified RO who gives proper range commands and scores targets correctly.  I dont want to go to battle for every hit that "doesnt break the perf" and have to explain the scoring rules every time there is an attempt to rob a shooter of an alpha by a "club vetted" RO.  

 

Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon or is this a unique one-off situation that i ran into?

 

You don't have to be a "Certified RO" to read and know the rules of the game. Anyone can read and understand the rules whenever they want. Its not like USPSA is restricting the rules to only "Certified RO's". When I run into shooters who don't know the rules and are ROing incorrectly I attempt to guide them down the correct path in a graceful manner. If they push back on my guidance I tell them to stop officiating if they are too lazy to put in the effort to understand and deploy the rules of the game properly.

 

As an MD and CRO I frequently get asked rule questions at matches. This is fine as some rules are a little confusing at times. But I won't endlessly spoon feed people rule information. If someone keeps asking about rule clarifications but isn't even attempting to help themselves by looking at the rules I will call them out on it. I will ask them "Did you try to find the rule(s) in the Rule Book yourself?". When the answer comes back as "No.....", then I tell them to quit being lazy and at least try to help themselves before wasting other peoples time.

 

The thing that blows my mind about these shooters who are super resistant to reading and understanding the rules is that they refuse to accept the fact that actually knowing the rules will make them a better competitor. Knowing and understanding the rules WILL make you a better competitor.

[nasty618]

4 minutes ago, zzt said:

special rules apply

 

understood, if it's a non USPSA match. i am specifically talking about USPSA affiliated match. Section 3.3 applies.

[nasty618]

6 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

The thing that blows my mind about these shooters who are super resistant to reading and understanding the rules is that they refuse to accept the fact that actually knowing the rules will make them a better competitor. Knowing and understanding the rules WILL make you a better competitor.

 

100%.

 

I was describing a scenario where a club uses their own additional vetting process and does not allow visiting certified ROs, instead opting for (not necessarily certified and knowledgeable) locally vetted ROs. 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by nasty618

[Nathanb]

I’ve had this happen once.   I ended up moving myself to that squad. It’s my fault so I fix it.