P320 X5 Legion announced! Q5 Match SF competitor?

[BobRockefeller]

18 minutes ago, Doublehelix said:

I am not sure if this makes a real difference or not, but I was doing some slo-mo filming of the recoil response of my X5 to fine-tune my recoil spring weight, and on a whim I also filmed the recoil response of my all-steel SIG P226.

 

There was a significant difference.

 

The polymer X5 (with tungsten grip, tungsten recoil rod and tungsten grip weight, total weight = 43.3 oz), flexed and twisted quite a bit as it went up and down in recoil, whereas the P226 (using the same loads) was solid as a rock, straight up, then straight back down.

 

Even with a high-weight tungsten frame, the steel frame is going to have a more solid response.

 

So which is better? That I cannot answer, I am just pointing out that a steel-framed X5 will respond differently in recoil than a polymer-framed X5 of the same weight.

 

Besides the flex and wiggle differences, did you discover a time for sights back on target difference height of slide kick difference.

[Doublehelix]

6 hours ago, BobRockefeller said:

 

Besides the flex and wiggle differences, did you discover a time for sights back on target difference height of slide kick difference.

 

Honestly, I wasn't really there to compare them. I was just trying to film the recoil response of different springs on the X5, and at the last minute, pulled out the P226 just for the heck of it, and shot one mag through it.

 

I actually forgot I even filmed the P226 until I went through each video to compare springs. I only brought it with me that day to try out the .22 conversion kit I bought for it.

 

I really did not spend any time shooting for speed or to even think about comparing the two guns in any way.

 

However, now that thought is definitely on my mind after watching the videos! On a future range trip, I plan on taking both guns and seeing how they stack up against each other a bit more. I have a match on Saturday, so I plan on hitting the range tomorrow for a quick tune-up before the match, so the head-to-head will have to wait until next week sometime.

[Rudukai13]

On 5/29/2019 at 5:36 PM, BobRockefeller said:

 

‘What do you see about the Q5 SF Pro (42.3 oz.) that makes it more desirable than the X-FIVE Legion (43.5 oz.)?

 

The actual steel frame. Not that I’m going to go out and buy a Q5 SF, I’m just going to save my money for whenever Sig or a third party manufacturer decides to actually make a grip module out of steel

[Rudukai13]

22 hours ago, kujo929 said:

 

You talking about a frame mounted optic as in building a steel framed 320 open major gun? As in open uspsa? Or a frame mounted minor gun? That is an interesting concept for sig.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

What I want is a steel (or aluminum, but steel highly preferred) grip module to be able to drill and tap the dustcover for a frame-mounted optic while leaving the accessory rail free for use (meaning no rail-mounted optic “bridge” mounts). That would certainly lend itself well to an Open gun build, but that’s not exactly why I want it

[alma]

On 5/24/2019 at 10:05 AM, Brian04rs said:

Wonder why the move to 3 17 rounders with basepads when this will clearly be a co gun. Was nice getting 4 21 round mags that could get you in the game and you could add spring follower and basepad if you wanted all the capacities.

I can't say exactly why they went this way, but one possible reason is for Bianchi. You can use the factory magwell in Production but you are supposed to use factory base pads as well and the stock basepads for the 17 rounders don't work with the magwell. Same goes for IDPA ESP. It's much easier to add 21 round magazines later than have users buy seperate 17 round mags and extended plus zero base pads that may or may not be legal. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by alma

[Brian04rs]

Good point alma, and you buy base pads regardless

[PrimaryBruce]

I have had absolute no desire to own a 320. I've shot dozens and I simply don't understand the fuss. Trigger is mediocre at best and the gun overall feels cheap to say the least.

 

 

 

.....but there's something about this that intrigues me and makes me want to give it a shot. Might actually be the first Sig I ever own.  I do wish they just did an actual steel frame rather than the tungsten infused. That would have been pretty awesome. 

[Kilrb]

1 hour ago, PrimaryBruce said:

I have had absolute no desire to own a 320. I've shot dozens and I simply don't understand the fuss. Trigger is mediocre at best and the gun overall feels cheap to say the least.

 

 

 

.....but there's something about this that intrigues me and makes me want to give it a shot. Might actually be the first Sig I ever own.  I do wish they just did an actual steel frame rather than the tungsten infused. That would have been pretty awesome. 

Agree, I had one sold it after three weeks. I just like my metal guns better......

[Aircooled6racer]

1 hour ago, Kilrb said:

Agree, I had one sold it after three weeks. I just like my metal guns better......

Hello: And now I am rocking it with Gray Guns curved trigger and an optic change. Hopefully now I can get more practice with it and some tuning. So far I am liking the Sig P320 X5 platform but I must say it may depend on how you use the trigger. I slap the trigger like some others that shoot the 320. I would like to try the Legion model just to see if I like the heavier setup. Thanks, Eric

[Kilrb]

2 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: And now I am rocking it with Gray Guns curved trigger and an optic change. Hopefully now I can get more practice with it and some tuning. So far I am liking the Sig P320 X5 platform but I must say it may depend on how you use the trigger. I slap the trigger like some others that shoot the 320. I would like to try the Legion model just to see if I like the heavier setup. Thanks, Eric

I am curious about this as well

[billthemarine2862]

5 hours ago, Kilrb said:

Agree, I had one sold it after three weeks. I just like my metal guns better......

 

7 hours ago, PrimaryBruce said:

I have had absolute no desire to own a 320. I've shot dozens and I simply don't understand the fuss. Trigger is mediocre at best and the gun overall feels cheap to say the least.

 

 

 

.....but there's something about this that intrigues me and makes me want to give it a shot. Might actually be the first Sig I ever own.  I do wish they just did an actual steel frame rather than the tungsten infused. That would have been pretty awesome. 

 

 

I agree with both of you.  I picked up a 320 X5 a few months ago put in a Grayguns trigger kit, upgraded guide rod, and everything else.  Still did not compare to any CZ or Tanfo that I own.

 

While the weight of a regular X5 sucked, the biggest deal breaker for me was the way it ejected my  brass.  Every piece of brass seemed to eject straight up and into my R1 or the slide.  It drove me nuts!

 

Even with the extra weight if the brass extracts the same way with the X5 Legion I would have to pass.  

 

I would rather deal with a single 6 or 7 pound DA pull than have an amazing 2 pound trigger where the brass actually leaves the gun and launches a few feet away to the right than watch every single piece of brass fly up and hit the slide or optic. 

 

It it ejects brass properly than, with the added weight of might be worth a shot...

 

I just wish they wouldn't call it an X5, as someone who owns a Gen 1 X5 with a L1 trigger I can attest that this is no X5

Edited June 3, 2019 by billthemarine2862

[BobRockefeller]

9 hours ago, billthemarine2862 said:

While the weight of a regular X5 sucked, the biggest deal breaker for me was the way it ejected my  brass.  Every piece of brass seemed to eject straight up and into my R1 or the slide.  It drove me nuts!

 

The weight of the X-FIVE is the weight; the X-FIVE Legion is meant to address that.  But the ejection of brass can be tuned easily enough by changing recoil spring weight to match the ammo. With your updated guide rod, order a set of Wolff full-size 1911 recoil springs (they sell a set specifically for tuning that has a range of spring weights included).

[billthemarine2862]

I tried 11-14 pound springs.  The gun functioned best with the 12 and 13.  With both of those springs I had the same issue with the way the brass ejectected.

 

I do love Sigs, especially the 226 X5 and 220 SAO Legion.  I may give the 320 Legion a try at some point once I see them in action.  I do think this pistol has a chance to be something really special.

[BobRockefeller]

2 hours ago, billthemarine2862 said:

I tried 11-14 pound springs.  The gun functioned best with the 12 and 13.  With both of those springs I had the same issue with the way the brass ejectected.

 

If the brass ejection distance didn’t change, what about the 11# spring made the gun seem to run better than the stock spring?

 

I have a DeltaPoint Pro on my M17. When new, it would eject almost straight up. With a 12# spring, I get consistency ejection 6 - 8 ft to my right. My 9mm reloads measure about 130 PF.

 

What is you ammo’s power factor?

[billthemarine2862]

132 PF.  125 grain blue bullets.

 

I did not care for the 11 pound spring just seemed too light.

 

I liked the 12 pounder the best.  The 13 was also not bad but, both of them consistently made the brass hit the optic.  The 13 pounder felt a little sluggish.

I was running a R1 as the optic.  

 

I ended up selling the entire rig a while back.

[BobRockefeller]

1 hour ago, billthemarine2862 said:

I ended up selling the entire rig a while back.

 

Your load was very close to mine. Troubleshooting, at this point, isn’t important. But is sure makes me wonder if the extractor and it’s spring were working as they should.

[billthemarine2862]

Ya, I agree that is probably an issue with the extractor or spring most likely.   I have seen some posts from other folks around here complaining about brass hitting the glass of their R1 so it certainly isn't an uncommon issue.

 

Will have to wait and see what happens if I decide to grab a 320 Legion.

 

Or if Max launches a steel frame variant one day. 

 

If they ever make enough 226 LDC's so that it becomes production legal I would have that milled and shoot it in CO as well.  That is my personal favorite non-x5 226 sig of all.  That thing is a tack driver and crazy heavy!

Edited June 3, 2019 by billthemarine2862

[mellino19]

Pretty sure my brass has been hitting the top edge of my R1 ever since I put in a stainless guide rod w/13 lb spring at 127 PF ammo judging by the marks . I have my slide out at L&M right now for a DPP cut.  I ended up getting a tungsten guide rod and a calibration kit from Wolff a few weeks ago before deciding to send out the slide and I'll have to play with it more when it comes back.

 

 

I was thinking about the X5 Legion or at least the grip module more because of the tungsten and the DPP cut (hence starting this thread) but I decided to cheap out an just get the optic cut for a mere $45 vs the $900+ for the X5 Legion...I am still curious about the module but I probably won't be able to keep my tungsten guide rod at the same time as the gun may be too heavy for Carry Optics. As many others keep saying, a steel frame is a bit more appealing but I'd like to get my hands on it before anything.

Edited June 3, 2019 by mellino19
adding wear photo

[PewPewJohnson87]

My R1 has 0 paint on the right side of the optic housing lol. It’s been 8krnds +/- and I have a 14lb spring shooting 147 BBi making 130PF. I think this is an extractor or extractor spring issue. I have tried 11,12.5, 13, and 14lb guide rod springs (ISMI springs), I never noticed a difference in how the gun extracts brass. 

[jcc7x7]

Sorry for all y'alls troubles 

Fortunately for me I've got an x-5 and a RX and neither has any paint missing with appox 5k through each

13lb spring in X5 and 12 RX.\

125 gr bullets 132 PF

[PewPewJohnson87]

18 hours ago, jcc7x7 said:

Sorry for all y'alls troubles 

Fortunately for me I've got an x-5 and a RX and neither has any paint missing with appox 5k through each

13lb spring in X5 and 12 RX.\

125 gr bullets 132 PF

Go buy a lotto ticket, because you gotta be the luckiest guy to own an X5 lol. I shot a local USPSA match this past Sunday and to my surprise there was 5-6 new shooters (they usually shoot IDPA) and they all had X5’s, 4 had R1’s and each one was missing paint. The other 2 had different optics. 

 

The brass hitting the optic shield doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not hitting the glass (which it hasn’t YET), but at the same time it’s like having a Roman candle fight... eventually your gonna run out of luck. 

[jcc7x7]

Just got done shooting another 100 and started raining. Brass is landing 9-10 ft at 3-4 o'clock.

Actually watched about 10 rounds. All went out fairly low and no sense it was hitting anything.

Running 12 lbs spring, 125gr bullets at 132 power factor.

[LawDog324]

My X5 running Blazer Brass 115 running the stock spring would chip the paint off the right edge of my Vortex Razor. I got a tube of the flat black  Birchwood Casey touch up paint and would fix the chip marks.

 

Since I switched to a 14# spring on a Springer Guide Rod I have not noticed any new chips, but I have not touched it up lately to know for sure.  It seems that the impact comes from the slide returning to battery and the red dot hits it as it moves forward, I'm just guessing the slide doesn't return as fast with the lighter spring.

[PewPewJohnson87]

1 hour ago, jcc7x7 said:

Just got done shooting another 100 and started raining. Brass is landing 9-10 ft at 3-4 o'clock.

Actually watched about 10 rounds. All went out fairly low and no sense it was hitting anything.

Running 12 lbs spring, 125gr bullets at 132 power factor.

I got some PD 124's that ill try out and see how it runs with a 12lb spring.

[dansedgli]

Both my x5's did it. Most guns do except for CZ's. They eject 9mm so good. 

 

But it's a non issue unless the dot is crap. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by dansedgli