USPSA President Out?

[warpspeed]

4 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Clubs have options.  It will be up to them on what they do with those options.  

 

 

Sponsors & Advertisers do too.  How long before they are tired of this ?

[truespode]

50 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Max has created a 1 Gun rule set for PCSL which is an all encompassing rule set clubs could use.  To be honest his rule set are much more shooter friendly and removes a lot of the BS.  

 

I Enjoy PCSL a lot. The only thing USPSA has over it is the classification system but I prefer almost everything else PCSL.

[Boomstick303]

19 minutes ago, truespode said:

The only thing USPSA has over it is the classification system

 

I believe Max is working on that.

[Chills1994]

39 minutes ago, truespode said:

 

I Enjoy PCSL a lot. The only thing USPSA has over it is the classification system but I prefer almost everything else PCSL.

WARNING:  major slide drift ahead….

 

serious question(s) that I would like to know since I have been away for 11 years: 

 

1.  Did USPSA HQ actually finally, officially publish the high hit factors for all the classifier stages?

 

2.  Can I go to the USPSA website or via the app, click on some classifier stage and it takes me to a records page (or “pacesetter” page ) where it says shooter Joe Blow, A58592 , set the HHF for this classifier stage with an HF of X.  He shot it in Y time with Z points.  He did it on this date and this club ????

 

The reason I ask is because around 2008 when single stack became a legit division, all of its HHF’s were exactly the same as Limited 10.  Also around that same time frame, Open division would have an X for a HHF for some stage.  Then Limited’s HHF was exactly 90% of X .  Then say Production’s HHF was 80% of X .  And so on and so forth.

 

In my opinion, if HHF’s were just like arbitrarily set ….somebody  pulled a number out if thin air (Or from somewhere else) and said this is the metric all shooters are going to be classified by, then that’s not much of a classification system….in my opinion.

 

If I am running the 100 meters and being classified, I want it to be based on Usain Bollt’s 9.58 second time.  Not some IT guy’s notion that a human [i] could [/i] run 100 meters in say 8.5 seconds.

 

 

 

 

[shred]

57 minutes ago, Chills1994 said:

WARNING:  major slide drift ahead….

 

serious question(s) that I would like to know since I have been away for 11 years: 

 

1.  Did USPSA HQ actually finally, officially publish the high hit factors for all the classifier stages?

 

2.  Can I go to the USPSA website or via the app, click on some classifier stage and it takes me to a records page (or “pacesetter” page ) where it says shooter Joe Blow, A58592 , set the HHF for this classifier stage with an HF of X.  He shot it in Y time with Z points.  He did it on this date and this club ????

 

The reason I ask is because around 2008 when single stack became a legit division, all of its HHF’s were exactly the same as Limited 10.  Also around that same time frame, Open division would have an X for a HHF for some stage.  Then Limited’s HHF was exactly 90% of X .  Then say Production’s HHF was 80% of X .  And so on and so forth.

You can go to the classifier calculator and get the HHF, but it won't tell you where it came from.

 

[Cuz]

For everyone like me that has no clue what PCS is…

 

https://www.pcsleague.com/

[RJH]

1 hour ago, Cuz said:

For everyone like me that has no clue what PCS is…

 

https://www.pcsleague.com/

 

Some interesting things there. Some stuff seemed a little wonky, but I only perused the rules, didn't give them a real hard look 

[Thomas H]

....never mind.

 

(Edited to remove post.  Discussing factual situations with people who aren't basing their commentary on facts is a waste of time.)

Edited April 24, 2023 by Thomas H
Not worth bothering.

[BMSMB]

1 hour ago, Thomas H said:

....never mind.

 

(Edited to remove post.  Discussing factual situations with people who aren't basing their commentary on facts is a waste of time.)

I'm not sure what you quoted me on, but if it has to do with Joe never being told why he was suspended, the letters between his lawyer, and USPSA, were posted online.

[GigG]

10 hours ago, Cuz said:

For everyone like me that has no clue what PCS is…

 

https://www.pcsleague.com/

From a quick look they don't look like they are ready for prime time.

[truespode]

9 minutes ago, GigG said:

From a quick look they don't look like they are ready for prime time.

 

I can't find the statistics but I think the number USPSA put out was something like only 5,000 members shoot every month. Less than half the members shoot more than a few times a year.

 

My guess is if USPSA went away only those who do majors will miss it and the rest I believe just want to shoot and will be just as happy doing HF matches based on USPSA rules or PCSL.

 

I mostly shoot USPSA because I can find one every weekend but I really really enjoy PCSL for the pure fun of shooting. I also enjoy IDPA but prefer the equipment and capacity rules of PCSL and USPSA.

[TaterHead]

I asked my area director “When will the USPSA membership be provided the full details of the recent President’s removal?”

His answer: “That will be determined by legal counsel.“

[Rich406]

9 minutes ago, TaterHead said:

I asked my area director “When will the USPSA membership be provided the full details of the recent President’s removal?”

His answer: “That will be determined by legal counsel.“

If any BoD or President is removed prematurely, the org owes the membership an explanation. Period.

Hiding behind the legal counsel excuse just makes thing look worse, and more it’s more believable that their reasons are flimsy.

 

if they were on rock solid ground for this removal, there would be no excuses for not putting it out here. 
 

Letting rumors and speculation run rampant is very damaging to the little credibility they had left..

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Rich406

[shred]

I'd like it to succeed, but PCSL seems to currently suffer from the same issue as many other rule sets-- no arbitration of the rules by participants independent from the match staff. 

 

Yes MD's get bent out of shape when an arb doesn't go their way, and yes people abuse them and thus why it always gets deleted from homegrown rules but that's how rules get ironed out and refined in the long run.  

 

[aandabooks]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:54 PM, CHA-LEE said:

I want to know how anyone on the Board expects a SOLID executive presence experienced candidate to run for the USPSA President Position with a salary of $50K a year when its a full time job (Hours required to actually get the job done right). The weak Salary alone will make the candidate pool willing to run for the position a very limited at best and at worst produce an endless cycle of under qualified or inexperienced people running for the position.

 

There is no disputing the fact that its been one "Clown Show" situation after another associated with USPSA. To pull the org out of the current nose dive will require an EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD team of people. That isn't going to happen with the currently voted on Presidential position salary.

 

I have honestly tried to wrap my head around this whole situation and apply logic to it, but it simply doesn't make sense to me.

$50k for a salary is just the tip of the iceburg in compensation.  I think that is where we are going to find that this came to a head for YML.  He likely started probing for answers and wanting to know about travel expenses and looking at the budget with how much money a few directors spend on travel per year leads toward some padding.  Not even to mention how much free ammo and guns are being kept by a select few that helps offset some lower pay levels.  

 

 

[konkapot]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am highly kerfluffled that there is so much drama and appearance of misconduct in the leadersihp of what is essentially an amateur shooting sport. 

[broadside72]

54 minutes ago, shred said:

I'd like it to succeed, but PCSL seems to currently suffer from the same issue as many other rule sets-- no arbitration of the rules by participants independent from the match staff. 

 

 What are you talking about? The USPSA rules for arbitration clearly indicate it can be anyone that is a competitor in the match. Only requirements is that the are certified ROs for L3+ and preferred certified ROs for L1/2. The only time match staff can possibly be on the committee is during staff match.

[shred]

12 minutes ago, broadside72 said:

 What are you talking about? The USPSA rules for arbitration clearly indicate it can be anyone that is a competitor in the match. Only requirements is that the are certified ROs for L3+ and preferred certified ROs for L1/2. The only time match staff can possibly be on the committee is during staff match.

 

I meant "non-IPSC/USPSA" rule sets.  Rules for local 3-gun or 2-gun or hoedown matches all the time cut and paste the USPSA safety rules but delete the Arb section and say "MD has the final call" which really means "it doesn't really matter what the rules say if you PO the MD".

 

USPSA and IPSC do it pretty well, from what I've seen (which is very infrequently but from both sides of the arb table).  It's a large part of how the rules have been refined over the years IMO.

 

[broadside72]

5 minutes ago, shred said:

 

I meant "non-IPSC/USPSA" rule sets.  Rules for local 3-gun or 2-gun or hoedown matches all the time cut and paste the USPSA safety rules but delete the Arb section and say "MD has the final call" which really means "it doesn't really matter what the rules say if you PO the MD".

 

USPSA and IPSC do it pretty well, from what I've seen (which is very infrequently but from both sides of the arb table).  It's a large part of how the rules have been refined over the years IMO.

 

 

Oh, okay. Couldn't tell from your post so assumed you were including USPSA

[Chills1994]

1 hour ago, shred said:

I'd like it to succeed, but PCSL seems to currently suffer from the same issue as many other rule sets-- no arbitration of the rules by participants independent from the match staff. 

 

Yes MD's get bent out of shape when an arb doesn't go their way, and yes people abuse them and thus why it always gets deleted from homegrown rules but that's how rules get ironed out and refined in the long run.  

 

People are winning new Chevy Z71 pick up trucks at matches now?

 

who knew things got so big and important in those 11 years I was gone?

 

[Boomstick303]

4 hours ago, shred said:

I'd like it to succeed, but PCSL seems to currently suffer from the same issue as many other rule sets-- no arbitration of the rules by participants independent from the match staff. 

 

I think PCSL is a work in progress.  It is by no means a finished product.  I think we need to give it time.  

 

 

[Neomet]

3 hours ago, konkapot said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am highly kerfluffled that there is so much drama and appearance of misconduct in the leadersihp of what is essentially an amateur shooting sport. 

Have you not seen what goes on at co-ed softball leagues? Sadly, I find this the rule rather than the exception. Nice use of kerfluffled BTW! 

 

[warpspeed]

4 hours ago, Chills1994 said:

People are winning new Chevy Z71 pick up trucks at matches now?

 

who knew things got so big and important in those 11 years I was gone?

 

 Or you can take the cash pay out, your call

[JimHom]

I’m a lifetime member and never missed any renewals of my credentials. Why do I give a f*#k for someone that doesn’t obey the by laws. Better f*#king yet be updated and pay your dues like all abiding citizens.

[Nolan]

35 minutes ago, JimHom said:

I’m a lifetime member and never missed any renewals of my credentials. Why do I give a f*#k for someone that doesn’t obey the by laws. Better f*#king yet be updated and pay your dues like all abiding citizens.

 

But comrade, all members are equal, but remember some members are more equal and any member can be removed at any moment by director NKVD DNROI.  Do not speak too loudly, the wall it have ears.

 

Nolavikov