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Boomstick303

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    James Domenico

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  1. 124 gr bullets it is. After performing some testing it would seem to me OAL does not matter much in my X5s and velocity matters the most. Below is an excerpt from my Range Diary, “So It Begins” on this forum. I had performed testing earlier in the week to try and find the best bullets in regards to accuracy to use in Carry Optics out of both of my X5 Legions. All testing was performed from the bench with the pistol rested. Each group consisted of 10 rounds. Comparing 147 gr vs 135 gr vs 124 gr bullets was very telling when measuring groups sizes at 15 yds in both pistols. Results were consistent out of both my practice gun and my match gun. The 147 gr bullets were the least accurate. They gave me groups the size of a grapefruit 4-6 inches with 1-2 fliers up to 2 inches out side of the main group, depending on the velocity of the round at 15 yds at an indoor range. I would attribute the fliers to poor marksmanship, but the fliers were consistent with every group in regards to the 147 gr bullet groups. With the 147 gr bullets, 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6 gr of Alliant Sport Pistol with an OAL of 1.100 and 1.150 were tested. The groups tightened up as the load in powder went up. The only conclusion here is the greater the velocity the more accurate the round which would be expected regardless of the bullet weight. The difference in OAL made zero difference in accuracy. 135 gr bullets loaded with 3.6 gr of Sport Pistol, loaded to an OAL of 1.125 yielded groups about the size of a tennis ball at 15 yds at an indoor range, no fliers. I loaded IBEJIHead 124 gr bullets at 3.7 gr, 3.9 gr, and 4.1 gr of Sport Pistol with an OAL of 1.100. These by far had the best groups. Not even close. As with the 147, as the powder load increased the groups got tighter with the 124 gr bullets. At 4.1 gr, the group was the size of a golf ball. Upon this testing I had come to realize OAL does not matter in regards to accuracy out of these guns, as an OAL or 1.100 was had the same accuracy of a bullet with an OAL of 1.150. My X5s are the most accurate using 124 gr bullets. Obviously a faster bullet is more accurate. In the search for powder puff loads to make the impulse as soft as possible I think I lost sight that you loose accuracy as you slow the bullet down. Just because the gun feels soft does not mean it is the best option for competition in regards to accuracy. There is also some data in regards to Ibejiheads 124 gr loads. Overall an excellent learning experience that I do not care to repeat anytime soon.
  2. Ammo testing for the week of 5/17/20-5/23/20. The search for the correct ammo and load!! I had performed testing earlier in the week to try and find the best bullets in regards to accuracy to use in Carry Optics out of both of my X5 Legions. All testing was performed from the bench with the pistol rested. Each group consisted of 10 rounds. Comparing 147 gr vs 135 gr vs 124 gr bullets was very telling when measuring groups sizes at 15 yds in both pistols. Results were consistent out of both my practice gun and my match gun. The 147 gr bullets were the least accurate. They gave me groups the size of a grapefruit 4-6 inches with 1-2 fliers up to 2 inches out side of the main group, depending on the velocity of the round at 15 yds at an indoor range. I would attribute the fliers to poor marksmanship, but the fliers were consistent with every group. With the 147 gr bullets, 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6 gr of Alliant Sport Pistol with an OAL of 1.100 and 1.150 were tested. The groups tightened up as the load in powder went up. The only conclusion here is the greater the velocity the more accurate the round which would be expected regardless of the bullet weight. The difference in OAL made zero difference in accuracy. 135 gr bullets loaded with 3.6 gr of Sport Pistol, loaded to an OAL of 1.125 yielded groups about the size of a tennis ball at 15 yds at an indoor range, no fliers. I loaded IBEJIHead 124 gr bullets at 3.7 gr, 3.9 gr, and 4.1 gr of Sport Pistol with an OAL of 1.100. These by far had the best groups. Not even close. As with the 147, as the powder load increased the groups got tighter with the 124 gr bullets. At 4.1 gr, the group was the size of a golf ball. Upon this testing I had come to realize OAL does not matter in regards to accuracy out of these guns, as an OAL or 1.100 was had the same accuracy of a bullet with an OAL of 1.150. My X5s are the most accurate using 124 gr bullets. Obviously a faster bullet is more accurate. In the search for powder puff loads to make the impulse as soft as possible I think I lost sight that you loose accuracy as you slow the bullet down. Just because the gun feels soft does not mean it is the best option for competition in regards to accuracy. This testing lead up to yesterday, where I was able to test some loads for 124-125 grain bullets to obtain the best performance in regards to accuracy. Blow is information for all three loads tested. Group sizes for testing were similar for all three loads. If I had to pick a winner it would have been the group loaded with 4.0 gr of Sport pistol. Stats - Average 1088.53 fps IBEJIHEADS 124 gr Stats - Highest 1128.39 fps Sport Pistol 3.9 gr Stats - Lowest 1072.78 fps 1.100 OAL Stats - Ext. Spread 55.61 fps Avg. PF 134.18 Stats - Std. Dev 15.59 fps Stats - Average 1116.8 fps IBEJIHeads 124 gr Stats - Highest 1128.81 fps Sport Pistol 4.0 gr Stats - Lowest 1099.37 fps OAL 1.100 Stats - Ext. Spread 29.44 fps Avg PF: 137.566 Stats - Std. Dev 10.85 fps Stats - Average 1131.52 fps IBEJIHeads 124 gr Stats - Highest 1145.53 fps Sport Pistol 4.1 gr Stats - Lowest 1112.37 fps 1.100 OAL Stats - Ext. Spread 33.16 fps Avg PF: 139.27 Stats - Std. Dev 10.3 fps Moving forward I will be using Coated bullets for practice and local matches with a bullet weight of 124-125 grain depending on manufacturer, most likely Ibejihead and/or Gallant bullets, with a powder load of 4.0 gr, and an OAL of 1.100. These loads are more than accurate enough for USPSA competitions. I did find that 137 gr bullets were most likely acceptable for most application in USPSA but since I want to move to Montana Gold 124 gr JHP bullets for all level 2 matches and above, maintain a similar coated bullet weight of 124-125 gr makes the most sense to me. Below is the load data for Montana Gold 124 gr JHP bullets, I found after reviewing my records that I performed about 6 months ago. I forgot how damn consistent and accurate those bullets are. Stats - Average 1050.97 fps MG 124 gr JHP Stats - Highest 1061.49 fps 4.1 gr Sport Pistol Stats - Lowest 1041.12 fps OAL 1.125 Stats - Ext. Spread 20.37 fps Avg PF: 129.704 Stats - Std. Dev 7.33 fps I will load the Montana Gold 124 gr JHP bullets with 4.1 gr of Sport Pistol, with an OAL of 1.100. I will try this load in the PCC as well, as my load is currently Montana Gold 124 gr JHP bullets with 3.9 gr of Sport Pistol with an OAL of 1.125. These work very well in the PCC so I do not think there will be much difference in felt recoil when moving up to 4.1 gr of Sport Pistol in the PCC. Testing will need to be done with the PCC to ensure this is the case. Interesting how I got to this point in that a Red Dot Optic that I thought was operating fine was actually the cause of me questioning the accuracy of the ammo. I thought I was using ammo accurate enough to get by. I do understand it is almost always the Indian and not the arrow, if the Indian has a more accurate arrow, it gives him more room for his error to be counted as a score rather than a mike. This process has taught me a lot about reloading, in a short period of time. It has also taught me to test everything yourself, and be diligent in my testing protocol, to have a full understanding of what is going on.
  3. One would think they would work fine but they have issues. This is only one example of many that I have heard of. You can always use it and find out for yourself. https://www.glockforum.com/threads/19-mos-mounting-plate-problem.50402/
  4. Do your research on the Glock optics mounting plates. I have seen some reviews where the plate does not secure the optic well enough. I believe John on his Warrior Poet YouTube Channel talks about the plates. So much so they are not using the stock MOS plates and choosing after market plates.
  5. Thanks for all of the input. I have continued to dig and given many answers some consideration into trying to figure out a reliable load that is accurate out to 25 yds. The main reason for the post was to open my eyes to many things I may have not thought about. Things like changes in pressure due to different OAL. Considerations to velocity, although not stated in the original post was thought about since 147 gr bullets tend to be loaded on the subsonic side. The post reminded me that was one thing I wanted to check out. If anyone had done some testing by only changing OAL, and reported its affect on accuracy, to give me some direction in my testing. Testing on my end was always the intention, because every gun tend to be different. The common themes I see from research and this post seem to be the X5 in particular does struggle with accuracy using 147 gr bullet. People seem to be seeing better accuracy with 124 gr and 135 gr bullets. The X5 seems to like a shorter OAL, not a longer OAL, although I have had some conflicting information on this I intend to test soon. I have found many loads through various sources of information that a 124 gr bullet with a PF from 130-135 and an OAL of 1.10 seems to be a very popular load in regards to accuracy with the X5. There does not seem to be large amounts of data in regards to OAL in general. This like most things seems to be gun specific and I will need to get to work to sort it out. Last night I loaded the following. I performed the plunk test as indicated in the YouTube video and the link provided in the post. It would seem I can load the X5 barrels to 1.169. All three barrels I tested would indicate I could safely load to this max OAL. For this round of testing I loaded to a max OAL of 1.150. Ibejihead bullets @ 147 gr, loaded with Sport Pistol powder @ 3.2 gr, 3.4 gr, and 3.6 gr loaded with an OAL of 1.150. This will test if velocity/PF will help in accuracy with 147 gr bullets that I have on hand. I also loaded Ibejihead bullets @ 147 gr with Sport Pistol powder @ 3.6 gr loaded with an OAL at 1.10 and 1.150 to see the difference in accuracy using the same same bullet/powder load with such vastly different OAL. I had some already loaded Gallant bullets @ 135 gr bullet, with Sport Pistol powder @ 3.6 gr, an OAL of 1.125, and I want to test again for accuracy. Its been a while since I have shot this round and I do not remember off the top of my head how accurate this load is. I do have a buddy that has had good luck with a similar load, loaded at an OAL of 1.150. Unfortunately I did not have any more 135 gr bullets to load at an OAL of 1.150 for comparison to the 1.125. I have also loaded Ibejihead bullets @ 124 gr, loaded with Sport Pistol @ 3.7 gr, 3.9 gr, and 4.1 gr with an OAL of 1.10. I did not vary the OAL for the 124 gr bullets, because I have a hunch the 124 gr bullet at this OAL should perform well in regards to accuracy. Depending on tonight's test result I may play with the 124 gr bullets OAL to see if I can make it more accurate if necessary. I am also curious if my crimp may have had some impact on the accuracy of the 147 gr bullets, and/or maybe all of the bullets I have loaded. Upon some more research I have started to crimp down to .377/.378. I was a touch looser at .379/.380. I made sure the bullets were not tearing when I used a hammer to remove the coated bullets on some dummy rounds when I crimped at .377/.378. I would have liked to load some more bullets at different OAL, but time is limited, so I will use the results from the tests above to drive future testing if necessary. I will post my findings once I have completed testing.
  6. +1, on Dramworx Pyrex Hoppers. Hopper is always clean. If you decide to clean be careful, many solvents cloud or even eat the plastic.
  7. The only way you are going to get the correct answer for your gun is to contact Grams directly. It is the only way to be sure. The confusion in the answers is that it probably varies. I own an 9mm XDM where the slide does not lock back after firing the last round. All of the magazines I have the grams Spring and Follower installed in for my Sig X5 Legion the slide locks back after the last round has been fired. I am assuming the reason you have the Grams spring and follower installed is for competition use. If you are not already aware , the reason for the comment for "you really don't want the slide to lock back", is because if you have reached slide lock in competition you have either not planned the stage correctly, or the stage has gone horribly sideways. I honestly don't care either way in regards to reaching or not reaching slide lock. for the reason I just stated, I rarely empty a magazine during a course of fire. Many people remove the ability for the magazine to reach slide lock to avoid other issues during competition. There are a couple of videos on YouTube on how to accomplish that. The reason for Grams design is for max round count. Not reliable slide lock. If you want the gun to reliably slide lock after all rounds have been fired you should not alter the original magazines. Anytime you alter a magazine you are essentially make the mag less reliable. Just my personal experience and humble opinion.
  8. With any hobby I think people after a bit ask themselves where is this going? I know I did in RC racing. I was in the mix at large events making A-Mains, traveling around the country, but the amount of work to get there was like having a second job. On top of that your weekend could be ruined by other drivers driving dirty. There was no recourse for crappy drivers taking you out. I then asked myself where is this going? Burnout contributed as well to me leaving that hobby. Is a hobby a job or something that should be fun? Is a hobby something you should get frustrated with? Probably depends on how a person is wired. Are they super competitive and have to win or place to stay interested? If that the case are they willing to put in the work to reach that level? Do they just want to attend and play? All of these things are really individual dependent. Shooting is like many hobbies I have observed. Turnover is always a part of the equation.
  9. On the SRO the 5 is a more crisp dot especially if you have an astigmatism. I have no issue running the 2.5 SRO which I own two of with my astigmatism, but 5 MOA dot is distinctly more crisp. I am currently switching to Sig Romeo 3 Max with the 3 MOA dot and it is the most crisp dot is as crisp or maybe more crisp as the SRO with the 5 MOA dot. I like the SIg Romeo 3 Max more than my SROs, but I have only ran one match with it, so the jury is still out.
  10. I'm sure this looks worse in the picture than it was in real life because camera angles don't always capture what the angles really were, but you don't have to spin 180 degrees to point the gun at him. Maybe past the "180", which does happen at matches. Like I said, I would not be standing there.
  11. Some people's lack of situational awareness, and/or self preservation skills are truly amazing.
  12. Forgive me if this topic has been discussed already, but from the searches I have done, I have not found a direct answer to this question. I have also looked on other boards in general and have not found a conversation about this topic I felt covered it in a manner to answer some of my curiosity in regards to this topic. I am super new to reloading and competition shooting and trying to get my program rounded out, so any knowledge shared would be greatly appreciated. If there is a link or search I missed that discusses this topic could someone please direct me to it, to avoid beating a dead horse. Has anyone played with different OAL in regards to accuracy for a given bullet, and/or load. I am having some grouping issues with 147 gr bullets that I need to sort out. My groups out of two different guns, using the same ammo and get similar accuracy results when sighting my carry optics guns in at 15 yds from the bench. I am getting about 3-4" groups with both pistols. At 15 yards I would assume this accuracy would be < 1 MOA. Is this assumption incorrect or a unrealistic expectation for coated bullets? Is it possible the powder (Sport Pistol) I am using is just not an accurate powder? My current OAL is 1.125 in a Sig X5 Legion, using 147 gr bullets, (Gallant), 3.2 Sport Pistol powder using CCI primers. This gets me a PF of about 130-131. I have seen a couple videos about plunk tests and when I perform this I get an OAL that is much longer than, 1.125. I have asked some friends running similar gear and the are using an OAL of 1.150. Does 0.025 make that much difference in regards to accuracy when it comes to OAL? If a coated bullet has to "Jump" to the rifling, does this damage the coating thus effecting accuracy? Is there a max OAL for 9 mm, for given powders and/or bullets, or is it just up to the construction of the barrel that determines what OAL should be? This is a link of the video I intend to use to aid in helping me figure out OAL. For his CZs he is comming up with a max OAL of 1.110. That seems very short in comparison to my legion where I can get an acceptable OAL of 1.170 when performing the same procedure on the X5. I have seen a lot of load data for JHP bullets being loaded to 1.10 and being very accurate out of SIg X5s. Are Jacketed bullets less susceptible to in accuracy due to varying OAL? I intend to load some 147 gr bullets this week and so some testing, but was looking at some input for some of these test loads before loading them. Any insight would be appreciated. Due to the shortage of loading supplies I will be loading Ibejiheads instead of Gallants. One last question. I have read some about testing Lube Grooved bullets vs non Lube Grooved Bullets. The principle being is that you make that bullet a touch longer giving the bullet a touch "longer" surface area that allows "more" rifling to make contact with the bullet. From the article it would seem the Lube grooved bullets have better accuracy. Has anyone done testing of these types of bullets and have a comparison? Sorry, for the book, but I would like to land on an accurate load to use moving forward for practice and matches that will not break the bank. I would prefer to not switch between bullets/loads from practice to match bullets. I will group all of the questions here so they are easier to view/answer if someone chooses to answer them. 1.) At 15 yards I would assume this accuracy would be < 1 MOA. Is this assumption incorrect or a unrealistic expectation for coated bullets? 2.) Does 0.025 make that much difference in regards to accuracy when it comes to OAL? 3.) If a coated bullet has to "Jump" to the rifling, does this damage the coating thus effecting accuracy? 4.) Is there a max OAL for 9 mm, for given powders and/or bullets, or is it just up to the construction of the barrel that determines what OAL should be? 5.) Are Jacketed bullets less susceptible to in accuracy due to varying OAL? 6.) Has anyone done testing of these types of bullets (Lubed Groove vs non Lube Grooved Bullets in the same bullet weight) and have a comparison? Thanks in advance for the discussion.
  13. I had issues when I tried to load 147s after having zero issues loading lighter bullets. I found the weight of the 147 gr bullets caused the spring to compress which caused the Double Alpha Dropper Die to deflect. I figured out the DA dropper die cannot have excessive pressure at the top of the die pulling it in any direction. This deflection causes the dropper to not operate properly. I ended up cutting the spring down do the 147 gr bullet wouldn't compress the spring. Be very careful on how much spring you cut, because you can obviously cut the spring chute too short which would cause other issues. You can always cut more, you cant add once you have cut it down. I also needed to adjust the position of the dropper mounted to the case dropper to get the proper angle so bullets would drop but would not deflect the DA dropper die. All of the issues disappeared once the DA Dropper die was not deflected. Something else to look for is the DA Dropper die making contact with the powder drop. If this does not make sense or need more clarification for a better understanding of what I am talking about don't hesitate to ask.
  14. I wish I was on this board before I performed my first GG drop in trigger job using the Alma Cole video. 2 hours of my life I will never get back. Good times.
  15. Thanks for tracking that down. Thats what I thought. Curious to what High Gloss looks like.
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