USPSA President Out?

[Bakerjd]

26 minutes ago, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said:

If we believe that is the reason …

what are some of the reasons one might have there RO cert taken away ?

does there have to be a reason to have your RO cert taken ?
 

I mean the dnroi himself was on video yelling at, and cussing out a father and son at a SCSA match due to the child being allergic to a substance in spray paint. Even told the father he and his doctor who diagnosed the child were wrong. IMO that should be enough to strip him of his position....... clearly there is and has been an agenda within the BOD, NROI and other staff. 

[Brooke]

I have never been happy with the new situation that gives the President little authority and the Board day to day tactical management rather than strategic responsibility. That said I don't know most Board members but I know enough to say they didn't vote for dismissing the President lightly.I doubt NROI Director would act unless the seriousness of an offense justified it.

 

There had to be some serious breach of conduct. Something like cheating or having some serious conduct with a woman. Not suggesting either of those occurred but you get the idea.

 

If an elected President is dismissed then the reason has to be stated. It can't happen secretly.  It just can't. 

 

This action must be explained and I believe it will look justified. They would not have acted so promptly to anything that would be controversial.

[BMSMB]

1 hour ago, Brooke said:

I have never been happy with the new situation that gives the President little authority and the Board day to day tactical management rather than strategic responsibility. That said I don't know most Board members but I know enough to say they didn't vote for dismissing the President lightly.I doubt NROI Director would act unless the seriousness of an offense justified it.

 

There had to be some serious breach of conduct. Something like cheating or having some serious conduct with a woman. Not suggesting either of those occurred but you get the idea.

 

If an elected President is dismissed then the reason has to be stated. It can't happen secretly.  It just can't. 

 

This action must be explained and I believe it will look justified. They would not have acted so promptly to anything that would be controversial.

And they would never suspend 5 members without giving them the reasons either would they?

 

Except they just did... Joe has literally brought in legal council to get the reason for his suspension. 

[shred]

I shot the Dragons Cup yesterday.  Shot a D on Yee-Min's stage.  The RO called him over to score it.  Hilarity ensued, good sportsmanship was displayed   This is what it should be about.

[Nolan]

10 minutes ago, shred said:

I shot the Dragons Cup yesterday.  Shot a D on Yee-Min's stage.  The RO called him over to score it.  Hilarity ensued, good sportsmanship was displayed   This is what it should be about.

 

A Richard was called?  Awesome!  The more I hear, the more I miss Mike Voigt!

 

Nolan

[Schutzenmeister]

Personally, when the smoke has cleared and the full details of this are made known, I would be surprised in the extreme to learn the sum total extent of the complaint on which the genesis of all this were limited to YML referring to Deltas as Dicks.  There has got to be something far more substantial than that to have generated all this.

 

I will wait and see ...

[sc68cal]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:15 PM, Rich406 said:

I’ve had YML as CRO many times over the years, he’s always been a straightforward and standout RO.

 

the complaint seems way out of character for him.

 

Agree. This has been my experience as well. YML ran a stage at Puerto Rico and we were in and out of the stage very quickly even with rain delays, and things went very smoothly. This is very suspicious to me, I do not believe the allegations made against him.

[sc68cal]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:11 AM, pskys2 said:

Well we elected the president AND our AD's.  So I think the process must play out, and that takes time.

 

There are current Area Directors that have run uncontested in elections. The org is not as democratic as it appears. Historically, there have been multiple instances where multiple Area Directors were up for re-election and ran unopposed.

 

https://uspsa.org/announcement/301

 

Quote

Every three years, each USPSA Area elects new Area Directors on an alternating schedule per the USPSA Bylaws. This year, 2017, Areas 2 and 5 will have elections. Last year, incumbent Area Directors in Areas 4, 6 and 8 all ran unopposed. The deadline to submit your introduction for publication in USPSA's Front Sight Magazine is Feb. 15. This introduction article is limited to 350 words or less. Please include a good color photo of you to accompany your introduction. Additional information regarding the various deadlines for USPSA's Front Sight Magazine can be found in the candidate petition available from the USPSA home office.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by sc68cal

[Bakerjd]

9 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Personally, when the smoke has cleared and the full details of this are made known, I would be surprised in the extreme to learn the sum total extent of the complaint on which the genesis of all this were limited to YML referring to Deltas as Dicks.  There has got to be something far more substantial than that to have generated all this.

 

I will wait and see ...

Yeah there is. YML is about transparency and getting rid of the USPSA swamp. The swamp needed a way to get rid of him and fast. 

[Bakerjd]

35 minutes ago, sc68cal said:

There are current Area Directors that have run uncontested in elections. The org is not as democratic as it appears. Historically, there have been multiple instances where multiple Area Directors were up for re-election and ran unopposed.

 

https://uspsa.org/announcement/301

 

 

There is a current AD who actually can't hold the position becaise they are not and have never been an RO. Bylaws were changed before they took office. In fact this person had 167 days to get the cert before taking the position and didn't. Why are they still on the BOD?

[gose]

24 minutes ago, Bakerjd said:

There is a current AD who actually can't hold the position becaise they are not and have never been an RO. Bylaws were changed before they took office. In fact this person had 167 days to get the cert before taking the position and didn't. Why are they still on the BOD?

 

I think it's fairly obvious, it gets delayed/dragged out so he can complete the RO class and not get kicked out, as opposed to the YML situation, the BOD wants to keep this guy around and once completed and "legit", it's a harder case to kick him out, since he then actually meets the criteria.

 

It seems like a slam dunk case, the BOD could (and should) kick him out immediately without any further delay.

Edited April 23, 2023 by gose

[uhmeebuh]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:10 AM, Cuz said:

This kind of stuff has me wondering why I keep renewing my USPSA membership and RO certification. I only shoot local matches where none of them matter. 
 

I actually think this is a larger issue - there are no real or similar competing organizations for our attention and dollars.  While I like the recent IDPA changes, it’s still a far cry from USPSA and IPSC.  One-off matches are out there but are far from the norm and lack the consistency that USPSA provides.  
 

Without a need to be/do better for fear of losing the shooter base, I don’t see a reason for the BOD to satisfactorily resolve the current structural and political issues.

[BritinUSA]

I think the best bet is a USIPSC organization to serve as the IPSC Regional Directorate for USA. This still allows USPSA to run their own matches with their own rule-book, but offers a viable alternative.

 

The division differences - particularly in Production and ProdOptics - may be an issue for some, but both divisions are popular world-wide with their more restricted rule-sets.

[Chills1994]

I haven’t shot a match since April 2012.  Yes, 11 years.  I used to be the volunteer USPSA and SC match director at Illinois’s premier gun range.  Then some shenanigans happened.

 

I don’t miss the soap opera drama llama ego BS one bit.

 

Every now and then I think about getting back into it, but then I hear stuff like this (at the corporate HQ level, even).

 

No thanks!

[vluc]

6 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

There is a current AD who actually can't hold the position becaise they are not and have never been an RO. Bylaws were changed before they took office. In fact this person had 167 days to get the cert before taking the position and didn't. Why are they still on the BOD?

Those new bylaws indicate that without RO status, he is considered to have resigned from office the first day of his term. Likewise the bylaws have no waiver or extension that can be granted. 

 

Yet he remains and has been granted an extension by the board. 

[Fishbreath]

18 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

There has got to be something far more substantial than that to have generated all this.

 

There should have been something far more substantial. "There has got to be" is, at this point, a pretty generous reading even to me, and I have been pretty generous in interpreting the board's motives in the past.

[gose]

10 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

I think the best bet is a USIPSC organization to serve as the IPSC Regional Directorate for USA. This still allows USPSA to run their own matches with their own rule-book, but offers a viable alternative.

 

The division differences - particularly in Production and ProdOptics - may be an issue for some, but both divisions are popular world-wide with their more restricted rule-sets.

 

IMO, USPSA has to get quite a bit worse before IPSC is an alternative.

[shred]

The latest BOD minutes have A4 being told to recuse himself on every vote, so sort-of kicked out but not really.

 

[motosapiens]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:02 PM, Bakerjd said:

I mean the dnroi himself was on video yelling at, and cussing out a father and son at a SCSA match due to the child being allergic to a substance in spray paint. Even told the father he and his doctor who diagnosed the child were wrong. IMO that should be enough to strip him of his position....... clearly there is and has been an agenda within the BOD, NROI and other staff. 

everyone who seriously shoots steel challenge would disagree with you, and there was much cheering and happiness among competitors and RO's that the org finally stepped in to deal with the 'allergic' shooter in question.

[BritinUSA]

2 hours ago, shred said:

The latest BOD minutes have A4 being told to recuse himself on every vote, so sort-of kicked out but not really.

But per the bylaws, he should never have taken office in the first place. There are no exceptions to the rule, and no provision for a waiver or delay of the qualification.

 

He must be removed from office immediately and a special election must be called.

[Bakerjd]

4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

everyone who seriously shoots steel challenge would disagree with you, and there was much cheering and happiness among competitors and RO's that the org finally stepped in to deal with the 'allergic' shooter in question.

Ahh but cussing and yelling at anyone by any staff member of a match shouldn't be allowed. Loosing your temper is exactly what got foley fired. Why is it different for DNROI?

 

Also I never said I agreed with the premise of the kid not having to paint. But honeslty I see a LOT of people who never reset at matches of all levels. In fact one of the ADs has that reputation. So really not helping reset isn't a valid reason for a staff member or match worker to loose their temper in front of everyone.

[Bakerjd]

6 hours ago, shred said:

The latest BOD minutes have A4 being told to recuse himself on every vote, so sort-of kicked out but not really.

 

Either way the BOD is still allowing A4D to hold the office and title.....

[warpspeed]

On 4/22/2023 at 10:16 AM, Nolan said:

 

A Richard was called?  Awesome!  The more I hear, the more I miss Mike Voigt!

 

Nolan

In more ways than one.

[warpspeed]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:02 PM, Bakerjd said:

I mean the dnroi himself was on video yelling at, and cussing out a father and son at a SCSA match due to the child being allergic to a substance in spray paint. Even told the father he and his doctor who diagnosed the child were wrong. IMO that should be enough to strip him of his position....... clearly there is and has been an agenda within the BOD, NROI and other staff. 

 

6 hours ago, motosapiens said:

everyone who seriously shoots steel challenge would disagree with you, and there was much cheering and happiness among competitors and RO's that the org finally stepped in to deal with the 'allergic' shooter in question.

 

Side note  - there is a right way to do things and a wrong way. Troy seem to like doing things the wrong way. Stickers on the port-a-johns comes to mind.

Edited April 23, 2023 by warpspeed

[Boomstick303]

8 hours ago, gose said:

IMO, USPSA has to get quite a bit worse before IPSC is an alternative.

 

You would be surprised about discussions behind closed doors that do not involve USPSA.  Something like this can be a catalyst in the way the clubs view their USPSA affiliation.  

 

You do not necessarily need ISPC as an alternative.  You can change you match to an outlaw match.  Max has created a 1 Gun rule set for PCSL which is an all encompassing rule set clubs could use.  To be honest his rule set are much more shooter friendly and removes a lot of the BS.  

 

I honestly do not think the majority of Local shooters give a care to what rule set they shoot under.  They just want a place to shoot in some sort of dynamic shooting sport.  

 

Clubs have options.  It will be up to them on what they do with those options.  

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Boomstick303