I wish Production wasn't dying

[Intheshaw1]

1 hour ago, BritinUSA said:

Yes, if people who have spent thousand of dollars and hundreds of hours in training cannot get into their local matches because of increased demand, then there are too many new shooters.

 

If the demand is far outpacing the availability, you have a basic supply and demand argument and it may be time to raise prices a little bit.

 

Honestly, for me the ammo and components shortage has been great because I can easily sign up for matches. Prior to that, I'd have to register the hour it opened otherwise it was likely to fill up. I also think part of the problem is without forcing people to pay if you register and then no show, we end up with about 10% of people not showing up. I get that people get busy but it always seems to be the same group and we know they register for multiple matches a few hours away from each other and then adjust where they go based on weather.

 

But by saying we have too many shooters like it's a bad thing is foolish. Yes, it may be inconvenient for some who can't shoot all the matches they want but without new shooters this hobby eventually dies.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

Yes, if people who have spent thousand of dollars and hundreds of hours in training cannot get into their local matches because of increased demand, then there are too many new shooters.

 

 

IMHO, the fix for that issue is NOT to make the sport suck more and be less fun so fewer people want to do it. The fix is to increase capacity in any of a number of ways. Sure, there can be obstacles to overcome to increase capacity, but there are opportunities as well. Sure, some people/ranges/organizations will be too lazy to do that.... That is an opportunity for other people/ranges/organizations....

[Jim Watson]

22 hours ago, Intheshaw1 said:

I also think part of the problem is without forcing people to pay if you register and then no show, we end up with about 10% of people not showing up. I get that people get busy but it always seems to be the same group and we know they register for multiple matches a few hours away from each other and then adjust where they go based on weather.

 

I can't imagine having so many places to go in different directions that I could pick and choose by weather.

I have shot prepaid matches in the rain, only once did I forfeit an entry fee because it was so bad, but that was years ago and I have concluded that I will stick to local matches in good conditions in my dotage.

 

I am worried enough about driving in the rain to an indoor shoot today.

ETA:  Match cancelled, I don't know why, maybe the MD thought it would be too stormy to travel to and from.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Jim Watson
Match cancelled.

[-JCN-]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:00 PM, BritinUSA said:

Yes, if people who have spent thousand of dollars and hundreds of hours in training cannot get into their local matches because of increased demand, then there are too many new shooters.

 

Should the sport be about money spent and training time?

 

Because the people who make our local clubs run are the ones spending time on the club and not on just themselves. 
 

With just shooting primadonnas in a squad most targets wouldn’t get pasted and nobody would be there early and late. 
 

I’m very much against local matches having anything to do with money and time spent on oneself.

 

Want to guarantee entry? Setup crew or MD is waiting….

Edited January 22, 2022 by -JCN-

[BritinUSA]

4 hours ago, -JCN- said:

Should the sport be about money spent and training time?

 

Because the people who make our local clubs run are the ones spending time on the club and not on just themselves. 
 

With just shooting primadonnas in a squad most targets wouldn’t get pasted and nobody would be there early and late.

Why do you assume that people only fit into one of these categories? Just because someone spends time and money on improving their performance does not imply that they do not work at the clubs. 

 

You seem to have a negative attitude towards people who see this as a sport. 
 

It is a sport - first and foremost - and always has been.
 

[IHAVEGAS]

17 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

It is a sport - first and foremost - and always has been.

 

A volunteer sport.

Without the top scoring 10%, who cares, the 90% can still have a great time. Without the workers, some few of which might come from the pool of very serious shooters, it is time to find a new hobby. 

[PatJones]

21 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

A volunteer sport.

Without the top scoring 10%, who cares, the 90% can still have a great time. Without the workers, some few of which might come from the pool of very serious shooters, it is time to find a new hobby. 

There's an awful lot of butthurt lately towards the people at the top of the sport. Where is this coming from? In my section, it's the higher-classified shooters who help put on the matches.

 

This is a sport, you are supposed to aspire to get out of C class. It doesn't really take that much work to get better 

Edited January 23, 2022 by PatJones
Spelling

[rowdyb]

3 hours ago, PatJones said:

There's an awful lot of butthurt lately towards the people at the top of the sport. Where is this coming from?

If you follow certain ig accounts then you see exactly where this is coming from.

 

On topic, I've been thinking about Prod and its status. I've shot CO, Prod, Lim10, Lim and PCC and Lvl 2 or higher matches. So I've tried other things, but I'm "known" as a Production shooter. And what I think would be helpful is not rule changes but promotion.

 

The people who like Prod and shoot it well should do more to share and explain what they find enjoyable about it. Yes there may be some divisional compare and contrast, but hopefully not in a way that tears something else down just to try and build something else up. AKA the CO versus Prod sniping.

 

Shooters who are division shopping need to see and hear people saying they like Prod. And why. Remember when people were fascinated by a guy who could shoot an assumedly inferior pistol and do well? It was him that drew and kept people in Prod to a certain extent, not Beretta or Tangfolio.

 

If shooters saw and hear people loving reloads, loving less expensive guns, loving 9mm minor, loving 10 rounds, loving stage planning then I think Prod could slow down its withering on the vine. Prod needs more Prod shooters who are happy to proclaim its intrinsic joys and skill tests.

 

We say the person matters more than the gun in the contest and I say it also does in the promotion. Prod shooters need more promotion, not the gun.

[Russty]

Prod proud! That is a great idea.

[sundevil827]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:00 PM, BritinUSA said:

Yes, if people who have spent thousand of dollars and hundreds of hours in training cannot get into their local matches because of increased demand, then there are too many new shooters.

 

 

 

Being honest, I'd like to think that this is a good "problem", if you can even call it a problem.

 

More demand means more responsible gun owners who are looking to get out and shoot. What it should mean is that local clubs prioritize people who are contributing to the club on a regular basis. Be it set-up, tear down, or the other things that go into running a successful club. 

 

It may turn some people away, but I suspect it will also motivate more people to get involved, and that's a positive. When I see clubs struggle, it's rarely because a venue doesn't want to host them, but rather an apathy to set-up, tear down, and work matches. 

 

Without coming off as negative, not sure why the investment I put into training, practice and so on should entitle me to a spot instead of someone who doesn't make the same investment. Shouldn't the investment that is being measured be that of who is contributing more to the club? 

 

Just my 2 cents..

 

 

[lfine]

Time for the "Production Proud" t shirts to get printed!

[rowdyb]

2 minutes ago, lfine said:

Time for the "Production Proud" t shirts to get printed!

Not the tagline I'd choose....

[lfine]

"Ten is enough"?

[BritinUSA]

Serious question for those that enjoy Production; Do you think that the rule changes concerning allowable modifications have made the division better or worse?

[vluc]

24 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Serious question for those that enjoy Production; Do you think that the rule changes concerning allowable modifications have made the division better or worse?

Other than the lights and weight, no.  Production was fine as it was before this, IMHO.  I have come back to production after CO, I missed the challenge of the stage planning.  When CO was Production Optics, I enjoyed the improvement with an optic and the 10 rounds.  Once it became CO with 21+ rounds it was no longer production in any way, shape or form.  

 

I stopped having fun with CO after a few years.  I'll still shoot it.  As a super senior with declining vision it is an aid, but it in no way is Production.   

 

Perhaps I am a dinosaur and the sport has passed me by after 20+ years. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by vluc

[BritinUSA]

Same here… When CO was a Production gun with 10 rounds it was a superb challenge. For me the high capacity was the big killer too.

 

Production and Production-Optics (as they were originally intended) were a great alternative to the custom divisions of Limited and Open. 30 years of shooting practical pistol and I can honestly say that those couple of years shooting a production optics gun - were by far the most challenging and rewarding.

[echotango]

I would much rather have CO with 10rnds. Even 15.

[BritinUSA]

3 minutes ago, echotango said:

I would much rather have CO with 10rnds. Even 15.

Same for me, 10 or 15. 

[RJH]

I think factory mag capacity is the best way. As long as it is a factory mag you can use it. True production capacity

[BritinUSA]

IPSC went for factory capacity when they introduced Production division, and it started off an equipment race with extended magazines being offered by some companies.
 

That’s why they later bought in a 15 round limit.

Edited January 24, 2022 by BritinUSA

[RJH]

I'd be ok with factory race equipment

Edited January 24, 2022 by RJH

[Flea]

45 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Same for me, 10 or 15. 

Move to NJ!

[BritinUSA]

32 minutes ago, Flea said:

Move to NJ!

I used to live in Colorado, that has a 15 round limit.

[motosapiens]

3 hours ago, RJH said:

I think factory mag capacity is the best way. As long as it is a factory mag you can use it. True production capacity

that’s the best way to turn it into a race only division that has no connection to what people actually carry.

[varminter22]

I've read, with great interest, this entire thread and must say I totally agree with those that believe it should be Production with Optics (and 10 rd mags).   I don't understand the logic of making it (virtually) "Production Open" Div.