Ssanders224 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, outerlimits said: not a gunsmith, but there's this thing called a breech face. HONCHO BABY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 I just earned a 7-day suspension!. is it time yet??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff226 said: Why would anybody switch if they don't want it? If there is still a .40/165 pf division then the gun is not obsolete. You can load a .40 to minor PF and the gun is still not obsolete. You can fit a 9mm barrel and the gun is still not obsolete. Dude, give me an address and I can ship you some .40 brass UPS Ground. The only people I see shooting limited minor are IDPA guys who are USPSA-curious or the first-time shooter with his Glock 17. Edited July 14, 2021 by deerslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff226 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 hours ago, outerlimits said: not a gunsmith, but there's this thing called a breech face. Yuup, there is a breech face most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 15 hours ago, Jeff226 said: I didn't bring up the agencies. 300 people carrying .40s in some minor LEO outfit has no bearing in USPSA as far as I am concerned. I complexly agree, the number of people using 40 outside of uspsa has no bearing on uspsa. That was my point. I thought you made a case about 40 being obsolete so we shouldn't use it, I must of quoted the wrong person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpYoursPal Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 While we're here and talking about it, I think that limited should follow Open's rules for major - i.e. .355" bullet diameter and up. You can get an extra 3-4 rounds in your mag if you're willing to beat your gun to hell AND deal with stupid recoil. Although I suppose 38 super/supercomp might be more tolerable than 9mm major in an un-comped gun. I'm sure as hell not going to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff226 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: I complexly agree, the number of people using 40 outside of uspsa has no bearing on uspsa. That was my point. I thought you made a case about 40 being obsolete so we shouldn't use it, I must of quoted the wrong person. Nope. You can see from my first post provided by our impartial moderator that I have advocated limited major as well as limited minor all along. Limited major should be available as long as people want to sign up for it. The people buying guns outside of USPSA are mostly abandoning .40 and that does affect USPSA. 300 LEOs keeping their old .40s doesn't counter that. I have been saying there is a good case to make limited minor viable/separate/competitive to maintain participation while 40 limited attritions down like single stack and revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 37 minutes ago, UpYoursPal said: While we're here and talking about it, I think that limited should follow Open's rules for major - i.e. .355" bullet diameter and up. You can get an extra 3-4 rounds in your mag if you're willing to beat your gun to hell AND deal with stupid recoil. Although I suppose 38 super/supercomp might be more tolerable than 9mm major in an un-comped gun. I'm sure as hell not going to try it. 9 major Limited would be no more abusive than it is in an open gun. It would also instantly kill 40 limited guns for anyone that wants to be competitive, way too many 20 to 24 round stages where not reloading would be a big advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 31 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: 9 major Limited would be no more abusive than it is in an open gun. It would also instantly kill 40 limited guns for anyone that wants to be competitive, way too many 20 to 24 round stages where not reloading would be a big advantage. 147gr 38SC for the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jeff226 said: The people buying guns outside of USPSA are mostly abandoning .40 and that does affect USPSA. 300 LEOs keeping their old .40s doesn't counter that. I have been saying there is a good case to make limited minor viable/separate/competitive to maintain participation while 40 limited attritions down like single stack and revolver. The people outside NHRA are buying F-150s, Silverados, Accords, and Camrys. NHRA needs to dilute the other classes and make a new category to make these vehicles competitive because these folks chose not to buy a dragster. Edited July 14, 2021 by deerslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff226 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 minute ago, deerslayer said: The people outside NHRA are buying F-150s, Silverados, Accords, and Camrys. NHRA needs to make a new category to make these vehicles competitive because these folks chose not to buy a dragster. When USPSA has the participation and sponsorship levels on par with the NHRA then I might waste some time debating that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Jeff226 said: The people buying guns outside of USPSA are mostly abandoning .40 and that does affect USPSA. It really doesn't. And if we constantly change our rules in hopes to attract the average joe we'll be constantly chasing our tail. We're much better off just being the best practical shooting sport on the planet and then people who are interested in practical shooting will pick a division they like and shoot. Those who aren't really interested can take to the internet to complain about who their favorite gun isn't competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Correct !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff226 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 21 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: It really doesn't. And if we constantly change our rules in hopes to attract the average joe we'll be constantly chasing our tail. We're much better off just being the best practical shooting sport on the planet and then people who are interested in practical shooting will pick a division they like and shoot. Those who aren't really interested can take to the internet to complain about who their favorite gun isn't competitive. It really does, that is why the growth is happening in carry optics. The rules are constantly changing anyway...that is what happens when fudds dig their heels in and try to resist what is going to happen eventually anyway. If it doesn't happen in USPSA it will happen somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jeff226 said: It really does, that is why the growth is happening in carry optics. The rules are constantly changing anyway...that is what happens when fudds dig their heels in and try to resist what is going to happen eventually anyway. If it doesn't happen in USPSA it will happen somewhere else. Changing the rules constantly can have the opposite effect too, it can drive people away. I don't really see growth in CO, I see shooters moving there from other divisions. That's not growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff226 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: Changing the rules constantly can have the opposite effect too, it can drive people away. I don't really see growth in CO, I see shooters moving there from other divisions. That's not growth. It is growth in carry optics. Yes, other shooters are moving there, because they aren't interested in dealing with cost and hassle of 2011s or production is not "limited minor enough. Most probably aren't going back. I agree that constant change can drive people away. Which is why I say it is better to add what people are demanding if it makes sense instead of constantly tinkering with existing divisions. Nothing makes more sense as a stand alone division at this point in time and the forseeable future than limited minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 17 hours ago, Jeff226 said: Yuup, there is a breech face most of the time. A resting breach face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jeff226 said: Yes, other shooters are moving there, because they aren't interested in dealing with cost and hassle of 2011s or production is not "limited minor enough. Most probably aren't going back. Well, start changing the rules for Limited and Open and see how many people leave the sport and never come back. Guarantee you that number will be greater than the number of new shooters it attracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUnderwood08 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Jeff226 said: It is growth in carry optics. Yes, other shooters are moving there, because they aren't interested in dealing with cost and hassle of 2011s or production is not "limited minor enough. Most probably aren't going back. I agree that constant change can drive people away. Which is why I say it is better to add what people are demanding if it makes sense instead of constantly tinkering with existing divisions. Nothing makes more sense as a stand alone division at this point in time and the forseeable future than limited minor. Out of curiousity how are you defining the limited minor division your advocating? Would it be same rules as current limited just with minor scoring (as the name seems to imply)? SAO inclusive? That seems to be redundant as the current limited allows for minor scoring. As others have pointed out it would be the same as splitting out Major/Minor revolver or single stack which you're not arguing for I take it. What I think your desiring is a place to shoot 9mm that is somewhere between the requirements of production and carry optics (open lite). I sort of get that but I would still limit this division to DA/SA and Striker fired and let the 2011s play in Limited/Open. Of course that would probably be the death of production. Edited July 14, 2021 by MrUnderwood08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balakay Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, ltdmstr said: Well, start changing the rules for Limited and Open and see how many people leave the sport and never come back. Guarantee you that number will be greater than the number of new shooters it attracts. "BuT I HaVe 2 EmAiLs FrOm FoLeY." stop feeding the troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff226 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Balakay said: "BuT I HaVe 2 EmAiLs FrOm FoLeY." stop feeding the troll. I do have emails. He will email you too. Saying I have emails and posting my honest opinion is not trolling. However, calling me a troll is "antagonistic" which is closer to trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Jeff226 said: You can see from my first post provided by our impartial moderator Just who do you think you're calling impartial?! I've already made my distaste for this well-worn subject clearly known, but if others want to play, so be it. Do I have a preference for Major PF? Uh, yeah. That's why my screen name is a contraction of, "I am a .45ACP deviate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff226 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 23 minutes ago, PatJones said: A resting breach face? I like this humor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 37 minutes ago, Jeff226 said: It is growth in carry optics. Yes, other shooters are moving there, because they aren't interested in dealing with cost and hassle of 2011s or production is not "limited minor enough. Most probably aren't going back. most people shooting CO seem to be elderly (failing eyesight) or young girls (weak hands). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUnderwood08 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, motosapiens said: most people shooting CO seem to be elderly (failing eyesight) or young girls (weak hands). The cost of being competitive in limited or open is definitely a contributing factor to CO popularity. $1300 can get you a glock with an SRO or a Shadow 2 with irons for CO/Production. A competitive 2011 with required magazines is double that. Edited July 14, 2021 by MrUnderwood08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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