Why is Grauffel so good?

[Steve RA]

Ted Williams was a superior fighter pilot and baseball player and a goodly portion of the credit was given to phenomenal eyesight, at least, in most things I have read about him.

[rgkeller]

Yep agree Doc. I said it before, IQ and physical build are to two "parts" of a person that are pretty much set at birth (at least the maximum). I look at Nils and BJ for instance, two very accomplished multi-discipline shooters, two very different physiques...that, at least right now, don't matter too much.

Except that Nils wins major championships and BJ does not

[MarkCO]

Yep agree Doc. I said it before, IQ and physical build are to two "parts" of a person that are pretty much set at birth (at least the maximum). I look at Nils and BJ for instance, two very accomplished multi-discipline shooters, two very different physiques...that, at least right now, don't matter too much.

Except that Nils wins major championships and BJ does not

Might want to go look that up.

[cnote]

Remember, Jordan was a Super Star at basketball but didn't fare too well at baseball.

I believe Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team as a freshman. He decided to WORK at his game and his natural abilities allowed his skill level to rise to championship levels. Seems to me the two go hand in hand. No amount of natural ability solely allows championship caliber performance and no amount of pure work will allow it without natural ability

Edited October 24, 2014 by cnote

[CHA-LEE]

Physical mobility is a required skill in USPSA/IPSC. You don't need to be a track star, but you do need to be flexible and produce aggressive movement on demand. Even though TGO is still kicking butt and taking names with his replaced knee's, his mobility is still far from optimal. Watch any video of Rob's movement through a stage verses other top shooters and the fact that his mobility is circumvented is obvious. He is offsetting his mobility limitations by shooting better/faster than everyone else. To me that is very impressive. Can you imagine how much MORE he would be ahead of everyone else if his mobility was 100%.

There is no question of Eric being the king of the hill right now. He IS the best shooter in the world today and has proven so by winning many matches against the rest of the top shooters in the world. How he got to the top and how he has stayed on the top for so long may be a mystery to everyone but himself. I don't think the answer would be as simple as one single thing such as shooting XYZ amount of rounds a year. It would be a mixture of many different things from many different aspects or vantage points. Time, Effort, Desire, Will, Support system, Opportunities, Sacrifice, Health, and many more factors combined happening in a specific coordination have resulted in his success. How can anyone really quantify which one of these things was more or less important than another. The answer is that we can't. All people can do is take a stab in the dark or try to associate the minimal facts we do know as being the "Key" to his success.

Edited October 24, 2014 by CHA-LEE

[leas327]

Remember, Jordan was a Super Star at basketball but didn't fare too well at baseball.

I believe Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team as a freshman. He decided to WORK at his game and his natural abilities allowed his skill level to rise to championship levels. Seems to me the two go hand in hand. No amount of natural ability solely allows championship caliber performance and no amount of pure work will allow it without natural ability

That's not a true story. Jordan was a sophomore on the JV team and was mad that they picked a 6'7" sophomore to play center on the varsity team. He made up his version and sports writers ran with it because he is Jordan.

[Hi-Power Jack]

The natural ability thing is real. I have trained many shooters and not all have the same basic tools, plus not everyone is wired the same. A top level shooter has incredible physical co-ordination. They are physically strong

Natural ability is a starting point. I see natural ability frequently, it is not uncommon. Having the "heart and commitment" is most rare.

I don't think anyone who knows Rob Leatham's achievements would doubt that he is

The Best Person on this forum to answer this question.

As has been said, we can only speculate.

We all have some experience with the subject, but I'd be willing to bet that none of

us has as much experience on this subject as Mr. Leatham.

Unless another GM with the international accreditation of Mr Leatham adds to this

conversation, I'd say that this is The Final Word on the subject, as far as I'm

concerned.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Hi-Power Jack

[remoandiris]

Grauffel handily won the 2014 IPSC Nats, too.

Edited October 25, 2014 by remoandiris

[boudreux]

Grauffel handily won the 2014 IPSC Nats, too.

I saw this on his facebook page today. I had been keeping up with it and he had enough of a lead that I figured he'd walk away with it. I wish Max would have stayed to shoot it or Grauffel would have gone and shot the Gator so we could've seen them up against each other in open.

[Mo Hepworth]

Its all the red wine avec fromage pour dejeuner. Makes him feel invincible.

[CHA-LEE]

They have all of the scores from the world shoot and should be able to easily consolidate the results with the Nationals to see if Eric would have beat Max.

[euxx]

He did, by about 170 points. I will post consolidated results if I'll get final ones for the Nationals...

[boudreux]

He did, by about 170 points. I will post consolidated results if I'll get final ones for the Nationals

I hadn't even thought about looking back and the world shoot. It will be nice to have them side by side.

[JGus]

Posted by TGO:

"The trigger on Eric's gun is exceptional, not anything you are expecting it to be. Some have trouble lifting 5 lbs on da pull. They are very heavy and on many stages gun started empty so no DA shot was ever fired. IPSC rules (Not USPSA) are weighted to favor the da/sa guns and the Tanfoglio's being shot have a distinct advantage. Being competitive with other than a da/sa platform seems unlikely to me. This issue is cokming home to USPSA also amd needs to be addressed. The results confirm this. 9 is not more accurate than .40, but easier to shoot due to less recoil."

"This issue is coming home to USPSA also and needs to be addressed" part caught my eye.

I'm not sure what this means? Do you mean USPSA "needs" to address DA/SA guns in Production? As someone who shoots a DA/SA CZ Shadow in Production, I'd like a little more clarity.

Edited October 27, 2014 by JGus

[JGus]

I've seen plenty of excellent shooters who aren't what I would consider "athletic." They would suck on a basketball court.

It appears from my NON-expert observations that top shooters move well and have exceptional hand/eye coordination.

[Nimitz]

Physical mobility is a required skill in USPSA/IPSC. You don't need to be a track star, but you do need to be flexible and produce aggressive movement on demand. Even though TGO is still kicking butt and taking names with his replaced knee's, his mobility is still far from optimal. Watch any video of Rob's movement through a stage verses other top shooters and the fact that his mobility is circumvented is obvious. He is offsetting his mobility limitations by shooting better/faster than everyone else. To me that is very impressive. Can you imagine how much MORE he would be ahead of everyone else if his mobility was 100%.

There is no question of Eric being the king of the hill right now. He IS the best shooter in the world today and has proven so by winning many matches against the rest of the top shooters in the world. How he got to the top and how he has stayed on the top for so long may be a mystery to everyone but himself. I don't think the answer would be as simple as one single thing such as shooting XYZ amount of rounds a year. It would be a mixture of many different things from many different aspects or vantage points. Time, Effort, Desire, Will, Support system, Opportunities, Sacrifice, Health, and many more factors combined happening in a specific coordination have resulted in his success. How can anyone really quantify which one of these things was more or less important than another. The answer is that we can't. All people can do is take a stab in the dark or try to associate the minimal facts we do know as being the "Key" to his success.

Finally we have an accurate perspective of what's going on ...

As I mentioned earlier, ever hear a world/national champion tell anyone that the reason they are great is becuase they simply possess a ton of natural ability? The reason, in large part, is becuase they realize exactly how many different elements, including just plan old 'luck' (opportunity) plays into them being as great as they are. In the end, desire, drive and commitment by far play the largest role in being a champion, particularly if you are more than the 'one and done' type.

It has been my experience that the 'well he just has the natural ability' claim is simply an excuse (defense mechanism) used by the average joe to rationalize away why he doesn't have the drive, commitment, energy, desire to be a champion and protect his ego at the same time. Not trying to say this is bad or good but just recognize what mechanisms are really at work here ...

[emjei]

I personally saw Grauffel fixing guns at World Shoot. ...he could have been resting or at a Disney Park.....instead he was there giving hints and promoting the love for the sport..... I didn't see any other shooter doing that....(at least I didn't)

[benos]

And + 2 to both!

[MarkCO]

RE post #167...Yes!

Based on the stories I had heard about Eric, I half expected him to be a jerk when I first met him. I waited until he had shot a stage, had done his prep and was just watching before I asked him anything. He was extremely nice, answered my questions with intelligence and thought, even prodded for my skillset before he answered one. There are a scant few at his level that still exude the passion for the sport and are so willing to talk to those wanting a little bit of free advice or a tip.

[dansedgli]

A friend posted a photo on facebook with Eric working on his gun at the world shoot. I was surprised to see him doing that.

A few people I know have met him and trained with him and all have great things to say about him.

[Attila]

Posted by TGO:

"The trigger on Eric's gun is exceptional, not anything you are expecting it to be. Some have trouble lifting 5 lbs on da pull. They are very heavy and on many stages gun started empty so no DA shot was ever fired. IPSC rules (Not USPSA) are weighted to favor the da/sa guns and the Tanfoglio's being shot have a distinct advantage. Being competitive with other than a da/sa platform seems unlikely to me. This issue is cokming home to USPSA also amd needs to be addressed. The results confirm this. 9 is not more accurate than .40, but easier to shoot due to less recoil."

"This issue is coming home to USPSA also and needs to be addressed" part caught my eye.

I'm not sure what this means? Do you mean USPSA "needs" to address DA/SA guns in Production? As someone who shoots a DA/SA CZ Shadow in Production, I'd like a little more clarity.

I was wondering about that as well

[38supPat]

I think he's referring to the fact that the current top production guns are more like Standard/Limited guns than an actual duty/carry gun. Compare a Stock III Exteme against an STI Edge. Both have Bomar type adjutable sights, +/- 2lb triggers etc. However the stock weight of an Edge is 38oz (shooting Major) and the Stock II is 42oz (shooting minor). In IPSC the trigger has to pass minimum weight, which is 5lbs. The CZ/Tanfo only have to do this on the first shot (which can be negated on stages by having an unloaded start) but can be down to 2lbs for subsequent shots, where a striker fired gun has to be 5lbs for every shot. This tends to bias IPSC matches to DA/SA guns. A 42 oz heavy framed striker fired gun might be the way to go in USPSA if anyone made one (no trigger weight rules) but for now the 40+oz DA/SA Production guns have an advantage.

[Neomet]

What is interesting to me is that most in Limited are clamoring for a light gun to shoot major with but in Production fatboy guns are considered the advantage shooting minor with it's lesser recoil. Just an observation. Me, I like a really heavy frame/grip gun for everything but I'm no top dog. This is a USPSA observation. In IPSC the differences in the trigger make anything other than DA/SA a real disadvantage.

[euxx]

In case anyone interested, here are match results on PractiScore:

IPSC World Shoot XVII 2014 (Unofficial, recalculated in PractiScore)

https://practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=fb758bb0-3daf-4742-938c-8bbf2ab58fd1

2014 US IPSC Nationals

https://practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=66450e61-23a2-4206-bf5a-dfbcda04ef38

Combined IPSC World Shoot XVII 2014 + US IPSC Nationals 2014

https://practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=a97bef10-27f3-4f87-be6e-b2d4c5e263bc

The last one combines stage results from both matches and overall results are recalculated based on the best stage HFs from two matches. Competitors marked with "*" have shot US IPSC Nationals match.

Edited October 30, 2014 by euxx

[Attila]

I think he's referring to the fact that the current top production guns are more like Standard/Limited guns than an actual duty/carry gun. Compare a Stock III Exteme against an STI Edge. Both have Bomar type adjutable sights, +/- 2lb triggers etc. However the stock weight of an Edge is 38oz (shooting Major) and the Stock II is 42oz (shooting minor). In IPSC the trigger has to pass minimum weight, which is 5lbs. The CZ/Tanfo only have to do this on the first shot (which can be negated on stages by having an unloaded start) but can be down to 2lbs for subsequent shots, where a striker fired gun has to be 5lbs for every shot. This tends to bias IPSC matches to DA/SA guns. A 42 oz heavy framed striker fired gun might be the way to go in USPSA if anyone made one (no trigger weight rules) but for now the 40+oz DA/SA Production guns have an advantage.

I understand the trend. I don't know what is meant by the part about "needs to be addressed".