amish_rabbi Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you are really curious, he does teach one on one classes at his range in france Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjei Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you are really curious, he does teach one on one classes at his range in franceFor the modest amount of ____ ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 He will also travel for training if his schedule allows. I took his course a few years ago (when he was traveling with his dad) and the cost was roughly the same as Max/Travis and Vogels see www.ericgrauffel.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you are really curious, he does teach one on one classes at his range in franceFor the modest amount of ____ ???? Cant remember exactly but i do remember thinking it was quite a good price when I found out about it, esspecially for a one on one weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prov1x Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you are really curious, he does teach one on one classes at his range in franceFor the modest amount of ____ ????Cant remember exactly but i do remember thinking it was quite a good price when I found out about it, esspecially for a one on one weekend I had a friend go to canada this summer to train one on one with eric for 2 days. I believe, I'll check with him to make sure, it was $2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmt Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Grauffel did three 2 day courses and two 1 day courses, in Ontario Canada in July. His 2 day course was $750 - approx 1200rds. Max 10 students His 1 day advanced course was $400 - approx 600rds. There are 2 instructors - I believe his father assists him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Grauffel did three 2 day courses and two 1 day courses, in Ontario Canada in July. His 2 day course was $750 - approx 1200rds. Max 10 students His 1 day advanced course was $400 - approx 600rds. There are 2 instructors - I believe his father assists him. Honestly, that's a bargain for what you could get out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny32182 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 As mentioned, it is his job. How much time do you spend at work every day? That is the amount of time he's shooting, or doing directly supporting activities. You could burn a lot of ammo pretty fast spending that much time practicing... if you could physically take it, that is. The fact that there is only one of him is just a reflection of the (lack of) money in this sport compared to big money commercial sports. If the world shoot prize was $10 million cash, you'd have guys that are pro golfers, or pro soccer players possibly coming over to shoot instead, and it would be a more competitive sport at the very top, with more than 1-3 guys in any division that have a realistic chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 With Eric's level of commitment to training, I bet competing, to him, feels as "normal" as putting on your clothes in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 4 things- natural ability and practice, practice practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I've never bought the 'natural ability' thing .... I've talked with and taken courses from several of the top USPSA shooters and non of them claim they had any particular 'natural ability'. learned skill through relentless training, dedication and commitment? Absolutely. But no special ninja-like skills that helped make them a top shooter ... So I think it's really 3 thing: training, training, training .... With all this talk about yearly round count are we now saying that the thesis I've heard by many top US shooters that you don't need to shoot 50,000 yds/year to be a top shooter is incorrect? It really does take 100k or more per year to be 'great'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I've never bought the 'natural ability' thing .... the top USPSA shooters don't claim they had any particular 'natural ability'. I have to disagree. Top athletes have better vision and eye/hand co-ordination than I have - by a large margin. And reflexes & strength. I could fire 250,000 rounds/year for 3 years, and never be at the GM level - I just don't have the "natural ability thing". I'm improving, and having an absolute blast, within realistic expectations - think I might have a chance at becoming an A shooter one day - but, never a M or GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 "Natural Ability" = Excuse for why someone is not as good as the person they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boudreux Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I've never bought the 'natural ability' thing .... the top USPSA shooters don't claim they had any particular 'natural ability'. I have to disagree. Top athletes have better vision and eye/hand co-ordination than I have - by a large margin. And reflexes & strength. I could fire 250,000 rounds/year for 3 years, and never be at the GM level - I just don't have the "natural ability thing". I'm improving, and having an absolute blast, within realistic expectations - think I might have a chance at becoming an A shooter one day - but, never a M or GM. I think its a little of both. As you stated Jack i think there is some natural ability when it comes to hand eye coordination and seeing targets faster. Pair that with 50-250k rounds a year and you would be at the top of your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 "Natural Ability" = Excuse for why someone is not as good as the person they are talking about. I'd say that, but then I shoot with a guy who was faster at drills in 2 years than a guy who had been shooting for 12 years and always fought for first place in production in canada. He doesn't usually win matches, but that's just a lack of match experience for planning ect. He also practiced no more for those two years than the experienced shooter. Hell he came back from 9 months of not shooting and we ran him through drills, still running crazy splits, transitions and reloads without having touched a gun or practiced at all. He is naturally better than me, and can't deny that. Can I get as good as him? for sure, its just going to take me more work.... which im totally going to do cause the day I beat him man will he be pissed lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think God gave each of us aptitudes, and some people indeed excel at some things easier than others. I believe that is just the natural order of things...at some point shear determination without an aptitude just runs out of steam. If that wasn't the case then (as an example) the world would be filled with lots Jimmy Pages or Kenny Wayne Shepherds...lots of people love playing guitar and are really dedicated to learning/practicing but some obviously have a natural talent which allows them to rise above the masses faster and easier. There is a young man at the club where I shoot who recently made GM in production and I doubt that he has shot 250k rounds in his entire pistol shooting career. He hasn't really been shooting all that long relatively speaking, but he has a natural gift and his cup overflows with enthusiasm for the game. . He is learning it all right now. Soon he may choose to forget it all and find his own way as part of his progression into the ranks of the top tier shooters. Either way he is definitely on the road to being a solid GM, if he so chooses. I wonder if anyone has ever asked Eric G. how he became so successful in this sport. It would be interesting to hear his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroed Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The the key to succeed as defined by Angela Lee Duckworth --- Grit. http://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duckworth_the_key_to_success_grit?language=en#t-184459 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Don't get hung up on the "natural ability" thing…as that might be an incorrect term…but anyone who has competing against or trained with top level pro (fill in blank) will tell you: They are different. Their fast-twitch is just a little faster than our fast-twitch; their "seeing" (and I am not talking about vision scores) sees just a little different than ours; then we get to the intangible part that champs all have…they are different. Practice? No doubt their practice is important, but I am not convinced that is a determining factor between "them" and me. Once upon a time I played lots of racquetball. In my life I have been blessed to watch Marty Hogan play, and just a couple years ago Kane Waselenchuk. Dominant, dominant champs. When I watched Waselenchuk play he rolled over the competition, and ultimately destroyed the #2 player in the world as if #2 was #102…and #2 was awesome. No way #1 just practiced more, or better, than #2. Same is true of other sports I have been around…the best are just different. Hard to explain but I have given up trying to figure it out….now I just enjoy watching the best do their thing:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Read The Talent Code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 One big thing is what one is willing to give up in their life to become a great shooter, like time, money, relationships, family,... Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The natural ability thing is real. Everyone has some, some just have more. It's what is done with it and how it is developed that matters. I have trained many, many shooters and not all have the same basic tools, plus not everyone is wired the same. A really top level shooter, as in champion at the top of any discipline has incredible physical co-ordination, and not just hand eye. They know where their feet are, and what their weight distribution is at all times and have excellent balance. They are physically strong, and I do not mean fit. Few are exceptionally light or small. There are some who are exceptions to some of these observations, but not all of them. All have a drive to train and excel while training. All are driven to excel under pressure and hate failing. All see the sacrifices they make to reach the top levels as acceptable, when many others would not. Those that stay relevant for extended periods of time truly love the equipment, practicing and the environment at the matches and feel very comfortable around others like them. They almost all do what they do out of an insatiable desire to perfect and perform the skills they need. Speculation of what it takes to get to this level seldom centers around the core elements. It is natural ability, but that is a starting point. Natural ability undeveloped will not create a champion. Interestingly, I see natural ability frequently, it is not uncommon. Having the "heart and commitment" is most rare. By the way, another curious observation; when an exceptional shooter performs at an exceptional level, it isn't special to them. They have of course experienced the feeling many times before and are expecting greatness to happen, not surprised by it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Rob, I couldn't agree more. Nice report, based on many decades of training with, and training great shooters. And being one of the greatest shooters of all time. Thanks for the perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Read The Talent Code.Great book, and the secret is in the book, I won't give it awayRob is also correct, natural ability is required to reach the very top. I strongly believe that anyone with a lot of commitment, who reads Talent Code and some Dry Fire books, takes a few classes should be able to be a solid A shooter in a year. Edited October 21, 2014 by zhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 There is a young man at the club where I shoot who recently made GM in production and I doubt that he has shot 250k rounds in his entire pistol shooting career. He hasn't really been shooting all that long relatively speaking, but he has a natural gift and his cup overflows with enthusiasm for the game. . He is learning it all right now. Soon he may choose to forget it all and find his own way as part of his progression into the ranks of the top tier shooters. Either way he is definitely on the road to being a solid GM, if he so chooses. Hearsay put his round count around 30K when he went from C to GM in those few months. Ahhh, to be young again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The natural ability thing is real. Everyone has some, some just have more. It's what is done with it and how it is developed that matters. I have trained many, many shooters and not all have the same basic tools, plus not everyone is wired the same. A really top level shooter, as in champion at the top of any discipline has incredible physical co-ordination, and not just hand eye. They know where their feet are, and what their weight distribution is at all times and have excellent balance. They are physically strong, and I do not mean fit. Few are exceptionally light or small. There are some who are exceptions to some of these observations, but not all of them. All have a drive to train and excel while training. All are driven to excel under pressure and hate failing. All see the sacrifices they make to reach the top levels as acceptable, when many others would not. Those that stay relevant for extended periods of time truly love the equipment, practicing and the environment at the matches and feel very comfortable around others like them. They almost all do what they do out of an insatiable desire to perfect and perform the skills they need. Speculation of what it takes to get to this level seldom centers around the core elements. It is natural ability, but that is a starting point. Natural ability undeveloped will not create a champion. Interestingly, I see natural ability frequently, it is not uncommon. Having the "heart and commitment" is most rare. By the way, another curious observation; when an exceptional shooter performs at an exceptional level, it isn't special to them. They have of course experienced the feeling many times before and are expecting greatness to happen, not surprised by it.... +1 to this. Look at it this way--About 90% of all people who show up for any special operations qualification course wind up dropping out somewhere along the way. To get to the qualification course, they have to be able to meet certain physical requirements, so you can stipulate some level of "natural ability" between any pair or group of candidates that makes them more or less equal. So, out of a group of 10, why do 9 of them wind up washing out or quitting? Because they lack the mental fortitude and drive to stay there. Regardless of how many times they've gone for selection and regardless of routine injuries sustained (discounting accidents, because sometimes bad things happen) and regardless of how much they protest they really do want X (the tab, the trident, the beret, the wings, etc.), they don't want it badly enough. Their subconscious sabotages them, which manifests itself in the physical world. How many times have you seen kids playing sports or pursuing something academically and never breaking thru? Often, it's not because they lack natural ability, it's because they lack the will. When I was a training officer, we would look at struggling cadets to determine why they were having problems. It generally broke down into two major categories--skill and will. "Skill" includes those things like training, physical ability, cognition, etc. Things you can fix thru repetition or exercise. "Will" are all of those "squishy" things which basically boil down to how badly the kid wanted to be there and how committed they were to meeting the requirements to be whatever their stated goal was. Skill issues are easy to take care of. Will issues . . . , not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now