Pistol Caliber Carbine. (PCC)

[hornetx40]

Why should anyone be against it. Don't like carbines don't shoot them. Done enough said. But let those of us who do shoot them. No skin off your nose.

Pat

Exactly Why should it bother people that don't even care to shoot it. This is after all a hobby....somewhere to spend our money and time on something we enjoy

[OPENB]

I really hope they do this. This would be so much fun. CO made me feel "meh," but I don't care if someone wants to do it. Come on, Mike, let's do this!

[Nightops]

Just to play devil's advocate, allowing PCC at a pistol match would require a pretty major re-write of the rulebook, not to mention educating RO's to the new rules. I'm not saying that is insurmountable, but its not like adding a new pistol division.

We've been doing it at a local USPSA match for several months already.

Loaded and holstered becomes loaded and low ready or aimed at starting cones.

mandatory reloads are still mandatory

Anything not freestyle becomes "from weakside shoulder"

The carbines are flagged all the time until Make Ready, and chamber flags go back in at Unload Show Clear

[mscott]

I would really like to see this happen, but the only downside would be taking away from my pistol shooting time that I desperately need.

I already use a 9mm for multigun where it's no more than 100 yard targets just because it's so much fun.

[bockerSV]

Another positive, I live in a state in which pistol permits are kind of a pain in the ass to obtain, and a pistol permit is required to even handle a handgun, PCC would allow those who don't feel like jumping through the hoops, or are in the process of getting their permit, or are too young to obtain a permit to still get a taste of USPSA. Oh yeah, and it would be stupid amounts of fun.

[NickBlasta]

Foley posted this on the USPSA forum:

FYI, I will be making a presentation to the BOD to add PCC as a provisional division in USPSA. I have conducted two beta tests at level one matches, and gathered experience at the SE Pro Am as well. My presentation will include video, lessons learned, and a ready to approve appendix. If this makes your MD nervous, let him know we are doing this one based on experience, and not on just an idea. I've worked with two clubs, 40 plus shooters, USPSA tech, Practiscore, and NROI RMs prior to finishing my presentation. I have also read every thread I can find, and had private conversations with many of you. My goal is to make it fun, safe, and easy on MD and RO staff. If you want this, or have concerns, let your AD know prior to next weekend. Thanks.

Looks like it's possibly a thing.

[mrpredictable]

This is going to be fun. Open/PCC nationals 2017, the battle for supremacy.

[Sarge]

Wouldn't it suck if something in the bylaws said only one provisional division at a time?!? We may have thrown away a good slot on carry optics!!

[Nathanb]

I'd love to do this with my mpx but mag changes would be ridiculous slow.

[zhunter]

CZ Scorpion EVO SBR here.

As if I don't have enough on my plate practicing reloads for pistol

Oh the fun, bring it on

[mscott]

I just started a thread in the Gallery for pistol caliber carbines. Let's see what everyone is running.

[AWLAZS]

No need to change stuff for the new division. PCC is not particularly relevent in 3-Gun because you already have a pistol in that format. Also, the PCC is not ideal for the more distant targets in 3-gun/Multigun.

The "P" in USPSA is not for Pistol...

But we only have handgun rules.

[Gooldylocks]

No need to change stuff for the new division. PCC is not particularly relevent in 3-Gun because you already have a pistol in that format. Also, the PCC is not ideal for the more distant targets in 3-gun/Multigun.

The "P" in USPSA is not for Pistol...

But we only have handgun rules.

USPSA multigun?

[AWLAZS]

I do not see why we want to have rifles at a pistol match. If you are going to adjust the rules so you can use a long gun why not allow shot guns too?

[AWLAZS]

No need to change stuff for the new division. PCC is not particularly relevent in 3-Gun because you already have a pistol in that format. Also, the PCC is not ideal for the more distant targets in 3-gun/Multigun.

The "P" in USPSA is not for Pistol...

But we only have handgun rules.

USPSA multigun?

If you are at a multi gun match you use multi gun rules if you are at a uspsa Handgun match you use the handgun rules.

[PPGMD]

I do not see why we want to have rifles at a pistol match. If you are going to adjust the rules so you can use a long gun why not allow shot guns too?

Because that would require much larger changes to the rules and the match.

A PCC fires a 9mm bullet, just like a production gun, or an open gun. Shooting the match is virtually the same except for the different start position. All you need is to bring over a few of the multigun rules for how to deal with the rifles when they aren't being shot.

[NickBlasta]

I do not see why we want to have rifles at a pistol match. If you are going to adjust the rules so you can use a long gun why not allow shot guns too?

You gonna shoot the paper with birdshot? That's a lot of taping.

[Southpaw]

I do not see why we want to have rifles at a pistol match. If you are going to adjust the rules so you can use a long gun why not allow shot guns too?

Because it would be fun

Shotguns would destroy paper targets and slow down the match. That would be a lot of reloading shooting a 30+ shot stage with a shotgun...

[Gooldylocks]

No need to change stuff for the new division. PCC is not particularly relevent in 3-Gun because you already have a pistol in that format. Also, the PCC is not ideal for the more distant targets in 3-gun/Multigun.

The "P" in USPSA is not for Pistol...

But we only have handgun rules.

USPSA multigun?

If you are at a multi gun match you use multi gun rules if you are at a uspsa Handgun match you use the handgun rules.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=uspsa+multigun+rules

[d_striker]

I do not see why we want to have rifles at a pistol match. If you are going to adjust the rules so you can use a long gun why not allow shot guns too?

Because it would be fun

Shotguns would destroy paper targets and slow down the match. That would be a lot of reloading shooting a 30+ shot stage with a shotgun...

My shotgun holds more rounds than a revolver.

[NickBlasta]

I shot PCC today at a match with my Marlin Camp Carbine. Lots of fun.

[Alaskapopo]

I do not see why we want to have rifles at a pistol match. If you are going to adjust the rules so you can use a long gun why not allow shot guns too?

Why do you care? Seriously if you don't want to shoot a pistol caliber carbine don't. But why deny those of us who want to. It does not detract from your match.

Pat

[TonytheTiger]

I do not see why we want to have rifles at a pistol match. If you are going to adjust the rules so you can use a long gun why not allow shot guns too?

Why do you care? Seriously if you don't want to shoot a pistol caliber carbine don't. But why deny those of us who want to. It does not detract from your match.

Pat

Maybe he's prejudiced against long guns and they offend him. Maybe he also believes you shouldn't drive a big pickup simply because he drives a small car.

As far as allowing shotgun's, haven't they had numerous games they can play in for the last hundred years or so? PCC's not so much, and I can think of a few people who have no interest in pistol matches but would be tickled pink by a PCC match.

Edited January 19, 2016 by TonytheTiger

[AWLAZS]

So I have not seen anyone actually explain why we should change our rules to allow rifles at USPSA handgun matches?

I am the president of the local USPSA club frequent MD and RO. There is more to this then adding rifle rules to the handgun rule book,

The equipment we use dictates how matches are set up. Think about it we have all been to matches where the stages were set up to favor one division over the other.

I can see stages set up playing to the strength of a rifle and not being much fun to shoot with a pistol.

I can see where running and gunning with a PCC would be fun. Not much recoil and easy to shoot. I have shot a few of them and its fun. I might have given PCC a try if I didn't have to pass on shooting the pistol match.

When I mentioned the shot gun you laugh and say you would have to reload to often. The do it in 3 gun They shoot paper and steel. its all figured out. I don't really want shot guns at the pistol match either.

I do not think PCC is a bad idea I just feel it shouldn't be part of a handgun match. I will say it again PCC will change course design and I am not sure we want to go down that road.

[blairmckenzie1]

So I have not seen anyone actually explain why we should change our rules to allow rifles at USPSA handgun matches?

I am the president of the local USPSA club frequent MD and RO. There is more to this then adding rifle rules to the handgun rule book,

The equipment we use dictates how matches are set up. Think about it we have all been to matches where the stages were set up to favor one division over the other.

I can see stages set up playing to the strength of a rifle and not being much fun to shoot with a pistol.

I can see where running and gunning with a PCC would be fun. Not much recoil and easy to shoot. I have shot a few of them and its fun. I might have given PCC a try if I didn't have to pass on shooting the pistol match.

When I mentioned the shot gun you laugh and say you would have to reload to often. The do it in 3 gun They shoot paper and steel. its all figured out. I don't really want shot guns at the pistol match either.

I do not think PCC is a bad idea I just feel it shouldn't be part of a handgun match. I will say it again PCC will change course design and I am not sure we want to go down that road.

If you are the President of your local club wouldn't that give you the opportunity to steer stage design away from being PCC-centric? I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to figure out when the small group of people who shoot PCC start wanting to build stages all the sudden.