MarkCO Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If a PCC division gets added that could be shot at a normal "pistol" match, then I will shoot 2 Divisions or my pistol skills will take a digger. PCC is SO easy (and fun) compared to pistol that I will have to make sure I spend enough time working on pistol skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Sharing this post here too: "I don't think they should break out into two divisions. Dot's for rifles can be had pretty cheap and even iron sights on a short barreled rifle are much more accurate due to increased sight radius over what we are used to on pistols. Almost all 3 Gun competitions now toss Irons and zero magnification rifles into the same division. Also, I don't think it makes much sense to restrict based on muzzle device. Most will come with a flash hider already. Folks should be able to run with that or swap out for a brake. Also, we should have some provision allowing silencers/suppressors. I really do think a run what you brung for PPC makes the most sense. Unless someone can point to particular technologies on the PCCs that would constitute a big disadvantage over other setups. I am curious how we would handle pistol braces too. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Sharing this post here too: "... I am curious how we would handle pistol braces too. " Sharing my response here too: ... A shoulder stock should be required in order to meet the Federal definition of a "rifle". The BATF has ruled that shooting a brace-equipped pistol off the shoulder is ILLEGAL under Federal law. If folks want to shoot a pistol, they have 7 existing divisions to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Sharing this post here too: "... I am curious how we would handle pistol braces too. " Sharing my response here too: ... A shoulder stock should be required in order to meet the Federal definition of a "rifle". The BATF has ruled that shooting a brace-equipped pistol off the shoulder is ILLEGAL under Federal law. If folks want to shoot a pistol, they have 7 existing divisions to choose from. So you could shoot a CZ Evo pistol waiting on a Form 1 in any of the seven divisions you mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I would assume "pistol braces" would be for pistols, not carbines. Am I missing something? Also it looks like the Evo could be used in limited or open (I did not look to hard at the rules on this subject) if you can find a holster. I don't understand what the form 1 has to do with this, maybe a link to whatever thread yall are talking about would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) So you could shoot a CZ Evo pistol waiting on a Form 1 in any of the seven divisions you mentioned? Looks like it would be legal in Open (with an optic), or Limited/L10 (with irons) if the magazines are of legal length. A holster would be required of course. Edited December 15, 2015 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Actually that looks like it has a foregrip -- so I don't think it can legally play -- but I could be wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 What happens for a stage where you have to carry a prop and shoot strong/weak hand or negotiate a tight port or wall. It's not a bad idea but I don't think integrating it into current pistol matches would work without making allowances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 We shoot a steel match where I live 4 or so times a year that is basically a 7 stage, all steel, uspsa match. The PCC guys get a different stage brief than the pistol guys. Delineating things like start condition, position and stuff like that. Everyone shoots the exact same stages with no adjustment made to the physical aspects of the stage based on what your shooting. I bought a cmmg 9mm ar rifle just for this match a few times a year. It is an absolute blast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 What happens for a stage where you have to carry a prop and shoot strong/weak hand or negotiate a tight port or wall. It's not a bad idea but I don't think integrating it into current pistol matches would work without making allowances. You carry the prop. You shoot strong shoulder and weak shoulder. Anything you can do with a pistol you can do with a PCC, and most things easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Time to get Just Right Carbine that uses Glock sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 One more thought on rules for this division: I think that when a PCC match runs concurrently with a USPSA pistol match, all normal pistol rules on target placement, falling steel etc., should apply but, when running a PCC only match allow the shots to be extended to 100 yards and allow called hits on the far steel, as in three gun. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) One more thought on rules for this division: I think that when a PCC match runs concurrently with a USPSA pistol match, all normal pistol rules on target placement, falling steel etc., should apply but, when running a PCC only match allow the shots to be extended to 100 yards and allow called hits on the far steel, as in three gun. What say you? Standalone PCC match? Use the USPSA rifle rules and keep the distances reasonable. No need to change anything. ETA: Or don't if classifiers are involved. Maybe only one set of rules is best? Edited December 16, 2015 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 What happens for a stage where you have to carry a prop and shoot strong/weak hand or negotiate a tight port or wall. It's not a bad idea but I don't think integrating it into current pistol matches would work without making allowances. Very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Chuck, goop point. waktasz, I have shot three gun matches where we have done just that, and no problems came up, just like with a pistol you have to watch your muzzle. Gun handling is a basic part of the sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I like this concept much more than carry optics. It would be a bunch of fun and I believe you could run the exact same stages as pistol. I would shoot the heck out of it if available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Well, we got a provisional division "just to collect data", which isn't recognized at Level II or higher, that already has a 2016 Nats slated, so why not take a Pistol only competition and allow Rifles? What could go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 OU, what do you think the problem would be? I would think a couple lines about start positions would be about all that would be needed. (I am sure other things would come up but can't think about anything insurmountable). What do you foresee being a problem? I am not trying to be a smart aleck, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I realize this thread is primarily about semi-auto carbines. Would USPSA entertain the thought of lever action carbines too? If so would they be a separate division within PCC? I have a Browning 1892 in .357 and its a lot of fun to shoot. Might attract the cowboy shooters too. This WILL slow up the match though. I'd still try it with the Browning. FYI....Might be time to dust off the Thureon Defense .45 I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Not sure USPSA will entertain any of this, right now it is all speculation and talk. What has been discussed, and seems to have support here, is to run heads up and all be scored minor. I have a leveraction in 44 that I might like to use as well although I would be fine shooting against the other guns but, I also shoot a garand in 3 gun in tac-ops sometimes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I realize this thread is primarily about semi-auto carbines. Would USPSA entertain the thought of lever action carbines too? If so would they be a separate division within PCC? I have a Browning 1892 in .357 and its a lot of fun to shoot. Might attract the cowboy shooters too. This WILL slow up the match though. I'd still try it with the Browning. FYI....Might be time to dust off the Thureon Defense .45 I have. Cowboy shooters may have a hard time making minor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm for a PPC division in a regular USPSA style match. as one of the people who has pretty much stopped shooting USPSA in favor of 3 gun, I would be more likely to come out, since I would use it as rifle practice. At our range here, no rifle calibers are allowed, and we use 22s to shoot 3 gun. it's just as much fun if not more so than rifle, as it's cheap and easy. Besides, PCCs and SBRs are gaining a lot of popularity. I'm on a waiting list for a Kel Tec in 9mm as I know a 16" shoulder fired 9mm has more punch and velocity than a 4" barrel, It's easier to make hits at distance, and it folds up so I can take it most places with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckley Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I think PCC in a regular USPSA pistol match is an excellent idea and a great fit. I'd shoot it, perhaps with an SBR'd MP5 clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARRYJ Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Oh the irony. We have a four page post here about adding a division and on the USPSA Shooting page there is a four page post about eliminating a division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Oh the irony. We have a four page post here about adding a division and on the USPSA Shooting page there is a four page post about eliminating a division.A sign of the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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