atbarr Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Gary, congratulations on being hours away from a well deserved retirement, and Thank You for your many years of service to the organization! I particularly appreciate all of the ways in which you've improved individual member's and R.O.'s understanding of the rules, while working as an R.M., with one of the nicest demeanors..... What Nik said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We already have term limits -- they're called elections...... ABSOLUTELY agree 100%!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We already have term limits -- they're called elections...... I'm not a fan of the whole concept -- since it undermines elections/the will of the population.... I voluntarily term limited myself Gary, congratulations on being hours away from a well deserved retirement, and Thank You for your many years of service to the organization! I particularly appreciate all of the ways in which you've improved individual member's and R.O.'s understanding of the rules, while working as an R.M., with one of the nicest demeanors..... Nicest demeanors...OK now who is out there impersonating me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Well someone has to make a decision and the sooner the better. The integrity of USPSA is at stake. How you say? Well It's the " classifiers" at level 1 matches. The local clubs will be charged with implementing this TP rule. Of course they are going to ask USPSA to furnish the equipment and of course USPSA will not only have to provide the equipment but the training too. Its the only way to ensure that the standard is applied equally ( theoretically ) at every single club that holds a level 1. Even if that happens the integrity of the classifier system will become a joke. Charges and counter charges of illegal guns. Then there is the time involved. At 5 minutes per test you are talking a significant amount of time added to the length of the match. Even at 3 minutes per test that's an awful amount of time. The BOD cannot wait to mull over this rule at their leisure. This rule must be deleted. The longer they wait the greater the number of people who will just decide that they've had enough and walk. Why would/should USPSA have to provide anything other than rules. They aren't providing the magazine check gauge or chronograph but they do check at Level III matches. If a club is just letting their shooters on the range without guidance then the club is at fault. Is the club checking equipment positioning for Production and Single Stack shooters? If not the club is at fault. To demand the BOD correct this immediately is what got the BOD in trouble to begin with. The rule doesn't go in effect until 2013 so let's let the BOD get up off the floor after the beating we are giving them and give them a chance to at least have a telecon and for the new electees to take their position. [thread drift] How about the idea of term limits of say 8 years or 2 terms eeems to work for the state of Montana. [/thread drift off] We already have term limits -- they're called elections...... I'm not a fan of the whole concept -- since it undermines elections/the will of the population.... How does it undermine the election process if it a part of that process or should a president serve as long as they can get enough votes. Or maybe have a term limit but an office holder wants the power longer so he gets the law changed just for him. The state of Montana has state term limits of 2 terms and a legislature that meets for 90 days every 2 years. Works for us. Almost forgot NO closed door meetings allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The problem with term limits is once you enter the limited term you are essentially free from having to perform as you can't be re-elected so why should you act as if you could? What we really need is an informed electorate as well as an electorate that is willing to and able to serve. Instead we have an almost 'royal' class where people obtain and office and run until the decide to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Ekujustice , Measuring triggers pulls on certain weapons you just have to make sure the trigger safety is engaged. With most firearms held in an straight upright position the gauge winds up being in the approx middle of the trigger without the guy doing the measuring making any effort to make it go there. A trigger is basically a lever and yes at one end the force needed to move the lever is different than the force needed to move the lever at the opposite end. Also most are curved and the pull winds up being in the middle for most weapons. I have measured triggers on a metric crapload of weapons and not had a problem doing it....be safe and methodical and no one will complain. I always tell the owner of the weapon what I'm doing when I perform the action and what the gauge reads as soon as it measures. I like (personal preference) to do 3 pulls. It can reveal a possible problem with the weapons functioning and safe operation if you have one pull measure at 5.5# and the next one (in the same location) measures at 2#. I would then advise the guy that he may want to get his weapon checked prior to doing anything else because of the discrepancy. One guy had a non functioning safety revealed by the trigger pull being VERY inconsistent. But overall its not a real issue....most guys go through it without batting an eye or breaking a sweat. In my experience when you see the guy approach with the obvious chip on his shoulder? You're going to have a problem with that guy. Him and the guy who looks like a kid who just got caught with his hand in the jar and a chipmunk cheek face saying "Cookies? WHat cookies? I didn't take any cookies." As he's trying to keep from choking to death. Those are the guys who have tweaked their trigger at home to measure within .00000001 of the limit or KNOW they're going to fail and are going to try and bluff and bluster their way through the check. One cited that his gun just came back from so and so's shop and he set it at X # so don't try and tell him its bad....he kept going on and on until I pulled out my cell and was dialing and he says "WHat are you doing?" and I tell him I'm calling so and so because I know him and he's built one of my rifles so I'll ask him all about the fudged up trigger pull on this one. The guy suddenly decided to go somewhere else.....and I never saw him again. I later found out he had his weapon set in the ounces range for a working deployable sniper rifle and it was NOT done by the gunsmith he quoted. That guy told him he shouldn't do that unless he was going to ONLY shoot bench rest events with that rifle and even then it needed a totally different trigger than the one it had. This rifle? If you looked at it funny it fired thats how sensitive it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Well someone has to make a decision and the sooner the better. The integrity of USPSA is at stake. How you say? Well It's the " classifiers" at level 1 matches. The local clubs will be charged with implementing this TP rule. Of course they are going to ask USPSA to furnish the equipment and of course USPSA will not only have to provide the equipment but the training too. Its the only way to ensure that the standard is applied equally ( theoretically ) at every single club that holds a level 1. Even if that happens the integrity of the classifier system will become a joke. Charges and counter charges of illegal guns. Then there is the time involved. At 5 minutes per test you are talking a significant amount of time added to the length of the match. Even at 3 minutes per test that's an awful amount of time. The BOD cannot wait to mull over this rule at their leisure. This rule must be deleted. The longer they wait the greater the number of people who will just decide that they've had enough and walk. Why would/should USPSA have to provide anything other than rules. They aren't providing the magazine check gauge or chronograph but they do check at Level III matches. If a club is just letting their shooters on the range without guidance then the club is at fault. Is the club checking equipment positioning for Production and Single Stack shooters? If not the club is at fault. To demand the BOD correct this immediately is what got the BOD in trouble to begin with. The rule doesn't go in effect until 2013 so let's let the BOD get up off the floor after the beating we are giving them and give them a chance to at least have a telecon and for the new electees to take their position. [thread drift] How about the idea of term limits of say 8 years or 2 terms eeems to work for the state of Montana. [/thread drift off] We already have term limits -- they're called elections...... I'm not a fan of the whole concept -- since it undermines elections/the will of the population.... How does it undermine the election process if it a part of that process or should a president serve as long as they can get enough votes. Or maybe have a term limit but an office holder wants the power longer so he gets the law changed just for him. The state of Montana has state term limits of 2 terms and a legislature that meets for 90 days every 2 years. Works for us. Almost forgot NO closed door meetings allowed. And by instituting term limits, the state has also limited each citizen's right to run the candidate of their choice, or to vote for the candidate of their choice, by setting an arbitrary limit...... Do I generally want folks to stay in office for decades? No. Might I want that option on occasion, if one of my representatives was doing a bang-up job? Yep..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfchorn Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We already have term limits -- they're called elections...... I'm not a fan of the whole concept -- since it undermines elections/the will of the population.... I voluntarily term limited myself Gary, congratulations on being hours away from a well deserved retirement, and Thank You for your many years of service to the organization! I particularly appreciate all of the ways in which you've improved individual member's and R.O.'s understanding of the rules, while working as an R.M., with one of the nicest demeanors..... Nicest demeanors...OK now who is out there impersonating me Took the RO class from you a couple of years ago, and have emailed you with rule questions a couple of times since. You have always been gracious, helpful and patient. Anyone trying to impersonate you would have pretty big shoes to fill. Thank you so much for everything you have done for the sport and participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 38 pages... I'm too late to this discussion, and only read the first page or two.... But THIS IS A CROCK. I've never had a pd gun that would be under 3lb, but that doesn't make me dislike the rule any less. I guess just like a chrono you have to have a margin of safety, you have to here, too. So really a 4lb trigger will be required to 100% ensure you don't get bumped to open at a major. I hope this gets overturned before going into effet. Predict a draw to DA guns w. their heavier first shot... -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 PARAGRAPH. Learn to love and use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 PARAGRAPH. Learn to love and use it. Is that a new Production gun from Para USA? I don't see it on the list??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 PARAGRAPH. Learn to love and use it. Is that a new Production gun from Para USA? I don't see it on the list??? I. wish. it. was. Sure. would. make. reading. the. responses. a. lot. easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The trigger safety on the glock makes measuring it harder than other triggers without it. Also, where are you going to measure the trigger from on the pivoting trigger. Unlike a 1911, the location of the trigger pull scale can affect the pull quite a bit. Shame on you. You have some nerve to use common sense in regards to this subject. Common Sense? Next thing you know there will be a push for "paragraphs". BTW I see you are from Richmond KY. I've got family over there in Berea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 PARAGRAPH. Learn to love and use it. Is that a new Production gun from Para USA? I don't see it on the list??? I. wish. it. was. Sure. would. make. reading. the. responses. a. lot. easier. WORD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 PARAGRAPH. Learn to love and use it. Sorry but that concept like common sense has faded away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centermass Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 PARAGRAPH. Learn to love and use it. Sorry but that concept like common sense has faded away. Commas, learn to love and use one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 PARAGRAPH. Learn to love and use it. Sorry but that concept like common sense has faded away. Commas, learn to love and use one. One, or them? (I see this thread has effectively run out of steam...awaiting the BOD's next move. Whew.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Bump for 40 page goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm only at 19 pages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glefos Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm only at 19 pages... ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 38 here, but I have the # of posts to show per page set to the forum default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) How about more out-of-steam comments to get this thread over the 40-page hump? - "it's" <> "its"; "it's is a contraction of it is"; "its is the possessive determiner of the pronoun it" - "alot" is not a word and <> "a lot" or "allot"; "allot" is a word and it means to distribute - "in regards" <> "in regard" - "comprised of" is incorrect; compare "comprise" to "include" - "cannot" is more accepted usage, not "can not" - "affect" is a verb and means to influence something; "effect" is a noun, but can also be used as a verb in the context of "bring about the result thereof or to cause something to happen" Edited January 3, 2012 by justaute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Closed. If you have any real data to add, let a Moderator know. I'll open this back up. Lets stay on topic (including me ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 What would be an acceptable time frame to hear back from an AD? I emailed my AD on 12/27 about this issue and have heard nothing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm hoping that the 3# requirement does not go through. If it does go through, though, the testing procedure will have to be detailed enough to handle testing of a H&K P7 with its squeeze cocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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