Chuck Anderson Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Minutes are up and public from the last BOD meeting. Just to let everyone know the BOD made a few changes to Division rules that will take effect Jan 1, 2013. (Note 2013, not 2012). There is a requirement to post notice of the changes in Front Sight and have period of time before they take effect. With publishing deadlines it would have taken us to the middle of the competetive season. Instead of making people monkey around with their guns mid season we set them to take effect in 2013. The items dealing with rules were the changes to Limited, Limited 10, Single Stack and Production. We did away with the requirement that 500 units be produced for L/L10. Single Stack and Production will have language added to disallow the use of magnetic magazine pouches. The other change in Production is a 3 pound trigger pull requirement for the first shot. Take a look at the minutes and addendums for Lim/Lim 10 for specific information about the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thanks for posting and your service! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thanks to the board for heeding my request to have the meeting on my birthday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Trigger pull limit...lame. No 500 unit rule means 6 inch sight trackers are legal in Limited then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Trigger pull limit? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avezorak Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Trigger pull limit? Why? Yea Im curious as to the logic behind this. Even more so since I just bough an XDM with a 2.5# trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Trigger pull limit? Why? Chuck and I voted against it, but we lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Leveling the playing field in the introductory Division, perhaps? Gee, I guess I will have to go back to more stock springing and make my gun more reliable. I'm heartbroken. Thanks for the heads up, Chuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I thought USPSA was trying to grow the membership? Rules like trigger weights are going to cause some people stick their membership in a dark and smelly place. Personally all it means is that I won't try to shoot any more Production. I guess I need to read the minutes to see how I need to thank. NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Trigger pull limit? Why? Chuck and I voted against it, but we lost Not sure anyone cares who voted for/against, but the board's reasoning behind the rule would definitely be appreciated. There very well may be a legit reason. The minutes contain nothing in the way of an explanation for the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It's time for the membership to voice their disapproval of the useless 3# rule for Production. This needs to be overturned before it goes into effect, this will simply be a nightmare for the chrono stage to test the varies triggers that are used. If a pull weight is good for Production then it should be just fine for the rest of the Divivsions, 3# straight across for all. Quit screwing with a Division that is working and popular, the Pres started this and does he even shoot Production. How many BOD members actually shoot Prod., do they even understand what they are doing. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 FYI: Motion: Minimum pull in Production will be 3 pounds for the first shot effective January 1, 2013 Moved: Pres Seconded A2 Passed Roll Call requested YES - Pres, A2, A3, A4, A6, A7 NO - A1, A5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Leveling the playing field in the introductory Division, perhaps? Most likely but why not just make it simple and limit Production to bone stock guns? Isn't that the original premise of Production. Buy a gun at the local shop and go compete without spending a ton of money? I admit I'm guilty as charged. I had nearly a thousand bucks in my G34. If none of that had been legal I would have shot it as is and probably been just as happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It's time for the membership to voice their disapproval of the useless 3# rule for Production. This needs to be overturned before it goes into effect, this will simply be a nightmare for the chrono stage to test the varies triggers that are used. If a pull weight is good for Production then it should be just fine for the rest of the Divivsions, 3# straight across for all. Quit screwing with a Division that is working and popular, the Pres started this and does he even shoot Production. How many BOD members actually shoot Prod., do they even understand what they are doing. Rich Come on man! A board member was gracious enough to come on here and give us a heads up. It's not going to do any good to start bad mouthing them besides I'm sure it's a no no here. It literally only took a few minutes to turn this info into a debate. Let's digest it and give it some thought and then contact our area directors and let them know how we feel about it. We owe them that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I don't think my Vanek trigger is even under 3 pounds...either that or my $15 trigger gauge is broken, in which case I would be sad to get called on it at a match. I still don't like the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Was this the new pres or the leaving pres? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Most likely but why not just make it simple and limit Production to bone stock guns? Isn't that the original premise of Production. Buy a gun at the local shop and go compete without spending a ton of money? I guided my vote on trigger pull for production based on the original intent of the division - a decision where bone stock general purpose defensive guns are FULLY competitive, and MINIMAL changes are allowed. If there were indeed general market production guns with < 3lb first shot triggers, I would have voted differently. Production guns are not made with sub 3-lb first shot triggers except, possibly, "specialty" guns designed and optimized for competition use. Allowing 2lb triggers in "Production" would take said division away from production and further its evolution into a division where anyone who wants to win will feel they have to get a special edition super-duper-production-gun-that-isn't-really-production in order to be fully competitive. The concept of someone buying a box stock Glock, XD or whatever and being "fully equipped to win any match, anywhere, without disadvantage due to equipment" would fade away if the prevailing standard becomes trigger jobs that are anything but "production". this will simply be a nightmare for the chrono stage to test the varies triggers that are used. It will be very simple assuming a proper, fixed weight trigger pull tester is designed. The way I would it is a fixed weight with a ringer shaped "roller", and the shooter is given N tries to pick it up off the table using his gun. I expect that testing the triggers will take considerably less time than the chrono measurement itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Another reason why I love Open. Love Love Love Love Love Edited December 23, 2011 by warpspeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Reminds me of new EPA regulations. Just going to cost Clubs more money. What is going to be the "blessed" trigger pull testing tool. How do make sure every chrono staff worker measures the same way. Weighing a gun and putting it in the box is a no brainer. Trigger testing=Not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhop Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It's time for the membership to voice their disapproval of the useless 3# rule for Production. This needs to be overturned before it goes into effect, this will simply be a nightmare for the chrono stage to test the varies triggers that are used. If a pull weight is good for Production then it should be just fine for the rest of the Divivsions, 3# straight across for all. Quit screwing with a Division that is working and popular, the Pres started this and does he even shoot Production. How many BOD members actually shoot Prod., do they even understand what they are doing. Rich obviously people with a financial interest in this wont like this new rule, but what part of the "production" division should people have to get $140 dollar trigger jobs to be competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Reminds me of new EPA regulations. Just going to cost Clubs more money. What is going to be the "blessed" trigger pull testing tool. How do make sure every chrono staff worker measures the same way. Weighing a gun and putting it in the box is a no brainer. Trigger testing=Not! With the proper gauge it is - provided the competitor is the one who conducts the measurement in the presence of the chrono officer. It's easy - "Lift this fixed weight off the table while the hook on the weight rests on your trigger". While I speak only for myself, I agree on the issue of "staff workers measuring the same way" - which is why I will push to either have the competitor do the actual measurement, or be given the opportunity to repeat the measurement (and pass) if it does not pass when the chrono officer does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 The trigger test is easy. 3 # weight with a wire. The gun can pick it up without firing or it can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Another reason why I love Open. Love Love Love Love Love First production, then accross all divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Another reason why I love Open. Love Love Love Love Love First production, then accross all divisions. I would be surprised if anyone sitting on the board would vote for such a thing. I know I wouldn't. There is no representation that any other division represents "out of box general purpose guns" pressed into competition use. obviously people with a financial interest in this wont like this new rule, but what part of the "production" division should people have to get $140 dollar trigger jobs to be competitive Therein lies the essence of the issue. Common objections will go like this: 1. A super-light trigger will not make you a winner, and someone with an actual production trigger has no disadvantage. 2. Don't you dare take away my ability to purchase an advantage with a 2lb trigger. And, amazingly, some people believe #1 and #2 can be concurrently valid statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhop Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Was this the new pres or the leaving pres? leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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