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USPSA BOD Meeting


Chuck Anderson

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9-0

Wow, what a swing in votes!

Never underestimate the power of an informed and vocal constituency and/or this forum.

Absolutely. Although there are times when it may be the responsibility of the board to go against the will of the majority for the long term good of the org, I did not personally feel this was one of those times.

My thanks to the Enosverse, and to those who contacted me individually, for helping the board better serve the membership.

rob

I couldn't disagree with you more... What's more, that's typical of elected officials, and I find the statement somewhat arrogant. Why is it the elected always think they know better than the people that elected them? I can tell you we love the USPSA every bit as much as anyone on the board. Moreoever, when you get input from hundreds of people you are less likely to pull a boner like the 3lb trigger pull. The Steel Challenge was one such major decision we would have, most likely, said no to and we still have yet to find out how much was paid for it, but I do know it has never made any money and in fact has lost money since we bought it. I only bring it up here because of your statement above. On a positive note, I think it's probably the most watchable shooting sport and a great way to get people into shooting... dunno if that brings them into the USPSA or not, but more shooters is better. :)

JT

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I couldn't disagree with you more... What's more, that's typical of most political animals, and I find the statement somewhat arrogant. What makes you think that you know what's better for the USPSA than we do? I can tell you we love it every bit as much as anyone on the board. Moreoever, when you get input from hundreds of people you are less likely to pull a boner like the 3lb trigger pull.

JT

The primary issue I am referring to when I made that particular comment is my fiduciary responsibility to the membership in regards to financial matters, legal risk, etc., rather than the rules or the shooting. Items like decisions regarding items that impact legal risk to the organization, whether to settle or litigate a suit, or actions that would hamper memberships in the long term by totally ignoring the "growth aspects" fall into that category. You are absolutely right with regards to issues like the trigger pull, and my vote reflected that.

For example, when we had the "land issue" (that I inherited when I joined the board), there were people who felt USPSA should release all details of how we were handling it, including the lowest offer we would entertain in the sale (and thus destroy any chances of effectively negotiating with a buyer). No matter how many people asked, I would have voted to keep that information confidential. Ditto if a majority of the members demand we publish the payroll for each of the individuals at the HQ office, or publish the performance review history of every staff member.

Part of the responsibility of any elected position is to do the job you are elected for and that means listening to the members but, if it was simple as serving as a proxy for individual member votes, we could save the expense by having membership-wide on-line meeting for all decisions.

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I couldn't disagree with you more... What's more, that's typical of most political animals, and I find the statement somewhat arrogant. What makes you think that you know what's better for the USPSA than we do? I can tell you we love it every bit as much as anyone on the board. Moreoever, when you get input from hundreds of people you are less likely to pull a boner like the 3lb trigger pull.

JT

The primary issue I am referring to when I made that particular comment is my fiduciary responsibility to the membership in regards to financial matters, legal risk, etc., rather than the rules or the shooting. Items like decisions regarding items that impact legal risk to the organization, whether to settle or litigate a suit, or actions that would hamper memberships in the long term by totally ignoring the "growth aspects" fall into that category. You are absolutely right with regards to issues like the trigger pull, and my vote reflected that.

For example, when we had the "land issue" (that I inherited when I joined the board), there were people who felt USPSA should release all details of how we were handling, including the lowest offer we would entertain in the sale (and thus destroy any chances of effectively negotiating with a buyer). No matter how many people asked, I would have voted to keep that information confidential. Ditto if a majority of the members demand we publish the payroll for each of the individuals at the HQ office, or publish the performance review history of every staff member.

Part of the responsibility of any elected position is to do the job you are elected for and that means listening to the members but, if it was simple as serving as a proxy for individual member votes, we could save the expense by having membership-wide on-line meeting for all decisions.

Actually, I do think the salaries should be public knowledge as well. Why are they not? We are paying them why should we not know how much we are paying.

There will be things that need to remain private in a temporary way, but once the reason for that has past there should be full disclosure of data and the boards reasoning for keeping it private and their thought process as to the decisions they made. That info will help us know if our current board is acting in a way we find acceptable, and if not, then we can think about someone who will follow our directions.

Online meeting and voting for members? Hmmm :) Maybe not in all cases, but sure would like to see something like that with an eye toward rules. :goof:

I'll back off this now as we are drifting pretty good from the thread topic...

No hard feeling Rob, I'm glad you speak your mind.

JT

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Actually, I do think the salaries should be public knowledge as well. Why are they not? We are paying them why should we not know how much we are paying.

There is a difference between releasing the salaries of certain folks like the President, NROI head, and Executive Director (I will check to see what the current policy is) and releasing the individual payroll information on the various office employees (other than in aggregate in the financial report).

Reporting on each individual's salary at the "troop level" in an office environment presents certain human resource management issues that are best avoided (most workplaces do not give every employee a list of what each of their co-workers is paid). In fact, although I could get access to those details as a board member, I don't generally see them as the entire "Staff budget" (excluding the Pres and NROI) show up as one line item in the annual budget we approve.

I'll start by disclosing my USPSA salary: $0.00. They've doubled it each year I've been on the board.

No hard feeling Rob, I'm glad you speak your mind.

JT

None taken whatsoever. Blunt talk and disagreement can make for good discussion, and is good for the organization.

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Now where are we on gas pe dals on limited guns?

Nothing changed with the latest BOD meeting. They will be legal Jan 1, 2013. Magnets in Production and Single Stack will not.

Cool! I always thought it was crazy for a slide racker to be legal and a thumb rest not.

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

The BOD doesn't make anything. We're all unpaid. The President is the only votin member with a salary. Nobody is hiding anything about the BOD salary

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

The BOD doesn't make anything. We're all unpaid. The President is the only votin member with a salary. Nobody is hiding anything about the BOD salary

Yes chuck, I didn't mean BOD, I meant people at the USPSA that draw a salary such as the Prez. ;) I do agree that we don't need to know what Val makes and the office staff. What we could know is say that office scale is from XX to XX.

Hell, the way it is now I don't even know how many draw a salary or what the total of that money is... It's time for the board to be a little more transparent. I hope the, we bought it and you don't need to know the details or what we paid mentality left with our outgoing Prez.

Best,

JT

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Actually, I do think the salaries should be public knowledge as well. Why are they not? We are paying them why should we not know how much we are paying.

There is a difference between releasing the salaries of certain folks like the President, NROI head, and Executive Director (I will check to see what the current policy is) and releasing the individual payroll information on the various office employees (other than in aggregate in the financial report).

Reporting on each individual's salary at the "troop level" in an office environment presents certain human resource management issues that are best avoided (most workplaces do not give every employee a list of what each of their co-workers is paid). In fact, although I could get access to those details as a board member, I don't generally see them as the entire "Staff budget" (excluding the Pres and NROI) show up as one line item in the annual budget we approve.

I'll start by disclosing my USPSA salary: $0.00. They've doubled it each year I've been on the board.

No hard feeling Rob, I'm glad you speak your mind.

JT

None taken whatsoever. Blunt talk and disagreement can make for good discussion, and is good for the organization.

:cheers:

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

The BOD doesn't make anything. We're all unpaid. The President is the only votin member with a salary. Nobody is hiding anything about the BOD salary

When will the members know what was paid to buy the Steel Challenge?

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

A.T.,

with all due respect -- the board members are not paid, they are volunteers.....

As far as what the individual folks in the USPSA office are being paid -- Rob made an excellent point above. There are valid human resource management principles involved in keeping those individual numbers, and performance reviews private. (Really -- if there were a problem there, we should be looking to replace the Executive Director, who's hired in part to oversee those issues.)

Now -- finding out what the staff costs in total, how much their salaries increased over last year, etc -- maybe....

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

The BOD doesn't make anything. We're all unpaid. The President is the only votin member with a salary. Nobody is hiding anything about the BOD salary

When will the members know what was paid to buy the Steel Challenge?

Maybe never. I've let every area director who's represented me since know that I wouldn't want to see a repeat of that deal without full disclosure/discussion in advance. Failing that, I strongly suggested he vote no....

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

A.T.,

with all due respect -- the board members are not paid, they are volunteers.....

As far as what the individual folks in the USPSA office are being paid -- Rob made an excellent point above. There are valid human resource management principles involved in keeping those individual numbers, and performance reviews private. (Really -- if there were a problem there, we should be looking to replace the Executive Director, who's hired in part to oversee those issues.)

Now -- finding out what the staff costs in total, how much their salaries increased over last year, etc -- maybe....

Nik, I appreciate the tone of your reply.

I still wonder about the secrecy behind the salary of the President, and the purchase of Steel Challenge. This information should be made available to the membership, via the web site. Also, the members IMO, have the right to see ALL expenses, since it's their money being spent. Spent wisely, or foolishly.

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In my club the Blue Grass Sportsmen League http://bgslinc.com/, we know what the officers make. Actually, only the Secretary has a salary. If there is talk of a major purchase, the members vote on it BEFORE the purchase is made.

How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the 'BOD' to hide how much their their individual salaries are? How in the world, can the USPSA members allow the BOD NOT allow the members to voice their opinion on a major purchase, such as the Steel Challenge? Even after the purchase of the Steel Challenge, the members have not been told the cost. How can this be?

A.T.,

with all due respect -- the board members are not paid, they are volunteers.....

As far as what the individual folks in the USPSA office are being paid -- Rob made an excellent point above. There are valid human resource management principles involved in keeping those individual numbers, and performance reviews private. (Really -- if there were a problem there, we should be looking to replace the Executive Director, who's hired in part to oversee those issues.)

Now -- finding out what the staff costs in total, how much their salaries increased over last year, etc -- maybe....

Nik, I appreciate the tone of your reply.

I still wonder about the secrecy behind the salary of the President, and the purchase of Steel Challenge. This information should be made available to the membership, via the web site. Also, the members IMO, have the right to see ALL expenses, since it's their money being spent. Spent wisely, or foolishly.

http://www.uspsa.org...es/20101106.pdf look on the 5th page took less than 5 minutes maybe you should do more work instead of just demanding answers

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On the production 3 pound rule, my vote changed because of member input, plain and simple.

Now I see stuff here on gas pedals on limited guns. The only change we made to limited was to eliminate the 500 produced requirement. How does that translate to gas pedals being legal? Before you answer please read line 22 in appendix D2-Limited division in the rules.

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http://www.uspsa.org...es/20101106.pdf look on the 5th page took less than 5 minutes maybe you should do more work instead of just demanding answers

I appreciate you taking five minutes to find that information. I was not the one wanting to know the salary of the President.

What about what we paid for Steel Challenge, did you find those figures?

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On the production 3 pound rule, my vote changed because of member input, plain and simple.

Now I see stuff here on gas pedals on limited guns. The only change we made to limited was to eliminate the 500 produced requirement. How does that translate to gas pedals being legal? Before you answer please read line 22 in appendix D2-Limited division in the rules.

Looks like line 22 isn't there in the revision.

http://www.USPSA.org/bodminutes/20111202_Revised_Limited_Division.pdf

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