scroadkill Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 LEO showed up to the match a bit late, first match and missed the briefings. once on stage asked where to clear duty gun.. and i guess change something. (not my squad). and gets DQed. I thought I recalled some allowed for this type of situation this but cant find it. anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nghthwk1911 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 What match was this, because that is a punk move on the RO or MD. Way to encourage a shooter to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 If someone shows up with a loaded firearm… they either use an unloading station, or goes directly to a match official… this is covered in 2.5.1 and 2.5.2… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murzikrv Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Is he allowed to show up with the loaded gun to his practice at the range as an officer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) Personally, I think the ROs on that stage failed the shooter. he came and asked… and at that point, he should have been taken directly to a safe area or down range… ULSC… and then all done…no DQ that’s how I would have handled it.. and that is how it would have been handled at most matches…. Edited March 4 by RadarTech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Gee ... Isn't this basically the current NROI Question of the Month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David.Hylton Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 42 minutes ago, RadarTech said: Personally, I think the ROs on that stage failed the shooter. he came and asked… and at that point, he should have been taken directly to a safe area or down range… ULSC… and then all done…no DQ that’s how I would have handled it.. and that is how it would have been handled at most matches…. Agreed, except not the safe area. There are no exceptions that I am aware of for handling ammo in a safe area. Once the LEO handles a loaded magazine in the safe area he would be DQ'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 If the LEO part matters to anyone, including said LEO,, then they are wrong... I mean guy showed up late, couldnt be bothered to catch the meeting for his first match.. maybe he copped (hah, pun intended ) an attitude ,, and expected special treatment... DQ,, Showed up,, went up to first person who looked like they knew what was going on and asked what to do ? Yeh clear the guy or tell him procedures... Obviously alot of grey area between those two examples... So I wasnt there and cant speak for the RO , RM and MD that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Cop or not if he ask I would take him to a different bay and clear him, if it was joe blo with his carry gun i would do the same. Hell, I would be glad he asked to be cleared, least it shows some initiative. Crap happens and people sometimes run late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I can't imagine showing up to my first match, late enough to miss all the information including the safety briefing. I'd wait until next match. Also contact whoever is listed as a club contact and ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Sometimes, some occupations, shi...stuff just isn't under your control about when or where you get off the job. Cut the guy some slack. Cold range or not, if he walked up to the RO while he was on the job with a loaded, concealed pistol while in mufti or in uniform, carried open, NOBODY would have told him to leave the range, it would have been perfectly OK. Nobody was in any more danger just because he was in the match instead of on duty. Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) From the IPSC Rule Book. I'm surprised given the prevalence of CC that you guy's don't have a similar rule to cover it. Possibly the DQ was because of how much time it took to approach an RO. But I probably given the guy a bit of slack being his first match. 5.2.1.1 Competitors arriving at an IPSC match in possession of a loaded firearm must immediately report to a Range Officer, who will supervise unloading of the firearm. Competitors failing to comply may be subject to Rule 10.5.14. Edited March 4 by terrydoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 If he got there late, as soon as he could after working a shift, again, probably not the best time for your first match. Particularly if you haven't bothered to touch base with someone previously and got as much info as you could about procedures for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 We have shooters show up all the time who ask to be cleared down range. No biggie and I'm glad they are carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 First match and shows up late. No thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 LOL! First person here, who has NEVER been late to anything, raise your hand! Then slap yourself for lying! I don't remember which match, maybe one of the old Friendship Classics in Norco. We were just about finished with our last shooter when Rob Leatham and co, who were in the squad after my squad showed up for their first stage of the day. Rob walks up "Ahh, right on schedule...LATE!" Everyone cracked up. Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Lots of context is missing from this post. The OP admits to not seeing it themselves. Many people are saying this person needs to be given special treatment given its their first time... My question then becomes... at what point does a person get DQed for this type of infraction? Match 2? 5? 20? This type of mentality has previous led to the USPSA community collectively decide to stop calling DQs for finger on the trigger while moving. Every match I go to I see this 3-5 times if not more. NO ONE calls it. Maybe you hear the random "FINGER" call and then some coaching after, but that's it. Same people do it over and over again. Either the rules matter or they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THS Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) What is missing here is common sense- If the person had the sense to tell a match official they were armed with a loaded duty or carry gun BEFORE they did something unsafe then they need to be treated with some COMMON SENSE. The correct answer was "Go back to your car, remove the loaded weapon and store it in your car." Most matches I have attended tell people to leave their duty or carry gun in their car. IF, and that is a big IF in this case, a match official, RO etc. took the person downrange and told them to ULSC, then applied the DQ, then the RO should be DQ'd for being a Fudd. I have a hard time telling someone that following direction from a match official is DQ able. 1 hour ago, Maximis228 said: My question then becomes... at what point does a person get DQed for this type of infraction? Match 2? 5? 20? It is not about how many matches- it is about having the sense to ask an RO when you realize you have your carry gun on. If you fail to get someone to clear you out in a safe location- against the back berm perhaps- then the DQ is applied. It is VERY easy to 'forget' you have an ankle holster on assuming you wear one EVERY DAY. Would you rather I just shoot the match and say nothing, or that I ask an RO to clear me so I can bag it? Edited March 4 by THS Context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 6 minutes ago, THS said: What is missing here is common sense- If the person had the sense to tell a match official they were armed with a loaded duty or carry gun BEFORE they did something unsafe then they need to be treated with some COMMON SENSE. The correct answer was "Go back to your car, remove the loaded weapon and store it in your car." Most matches I have attended tell people to leave their duty or carry gun in their car. IF, and that is a big IF in this case, a match official, RO etc. took the person downrange and told them to ULSC, then applied the DQ, then the RO should be DQ'd for being a Fudd. I have a hard time telling someone that following direction from a match official is DQ able. It is not about how many matches- it is about having the sense to ask an RO when you realize you have your carry gun on. If you fail to get someone to clear you out in a safe location- against the back berm perhaps- then the DQ is applied. It is VERY easy to 'forget' you have an ankle holster on assuming you wear one EVERY DAY. Would you rather I just shoot the match and say nothing, or that I ask an RO to clear me so I can bag it? I’m sorry. But your post literally just says to go to the car and HANDLE a loaded weapon… That is ABSOLUTELY the wrong way to have common sense… handling a firearm at the car is a DQ, with the exceptions written in for a PCC. the rules are very clear.. go to an RO, tell them.. and then they will clear it per the rules… and all is well.. been there done that.. please tell me how what you reccomend is common sense, or even a better idea of safer than clearing under the supervision of an RO? And how sending him/her to a car to handle and unload is not a DQ in and of itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 11 minutes ago, RadarTech said: I’m sorry. But your post literally just says to go to the car and HANDLE a loaded weapon… That is ABSOLUTELY the wrong way to have common sense… handling a firearm at the car is a DQ, with the exceptions written in for a PCC. agreed. we have rules and procedures to handle this already. handling your loaded gun in your car is not part of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THS Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) Rule 2.5.2 is the answer- there was no DQ. It is specifically NOT A DQ to notify a range official you have a loaded firearm. The rules are applied "During a match." The parking lot is not part of a match. 2.5.1 specifically states the unloading area is "outside the entrance to the range" where a shooter can unload on their own. Huh. The parking lot is EXACTLY THE SAME THING outside the range. Hundreds of thousands of people handle a carry \ duty gun without a range fudd looking over their shoulder daily. If I stop to get a meal and a beer \ drink I unload and secure the firearm, gasp, in the parking lot! Edited March 4 by THS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THS Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 39 minutes ago, RadarTech said: That is ABSOLUTELY the wrong way to have common sense… handling a firearm at the car is a DQ, with the exceptions written in for a PCC. What rule covers the parking lot? 39 minutes ago, RadarTech said: clearing under the supervision of an RO? And how sending him/her to a car to handle and unload is not a DQ in and of itself? If the RO thinks it is a DQ able thing, then their qualifications are suspect at best. How do I know they are safe if they think the rule is to DQ the shooter? Again, the parking lot is NOT part of the Match, and therefore NOT subject to USPSA rules. There may be club rules concerning unloading carry or duty weapons, but that is not USPSA. Again, 2.5.1 says the unloading area is AWAY from the range or part of the range set aside for USPSA event(s) and there is no mention of unloading under supervision, which means it can be done by the shooter. Sending someone away to unload and secure their duty or carry firearm in a place away from the USPSA match (the Parking lot) is in complete compliance with 2.5.1 and 2.5.2. 39 minutes ago, RadarTech said: Edited March 4 by THS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 From what I'm reading here it seems like the smart move is to just unload at your car when no one is looking. Maybe you get caught and DQ'd. Or you ask someone to clear you and get DQ'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, THS said: What rule covers the parking lot? ...... .....Sending someone away to unload and secure their duty or carry firearm in a place away from the USPSA match (the Parking lot) is in complete compliance with 2.5.1 and 2.5.2. Eh. It would be a giant leap to say that some car in the parking lot is in compliance with 2.5.1. 2.5.1 says the unloading area "should be clearly marked with a sign, and must include a suitable impact area". Frankly, I'd rather not have some guy randomly unloading his duty/carry gun in the car parked next to me. Edited March 4 by Ssanders224 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 53 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: From what I'm reading here it seems like the smart move is to just unload at your car when no one is looking. Maybe you get caught and DQ'd. Or you ask someone to clear you and get DQ'd. LOL! Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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