bluewaters182 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 7 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said: Clearly ... You neither live in nor know anyone who lives in a state where carrying a loaded firearm is defacto ILLEGAL! It's also possible that a given range simply does not have an area they can designate for this on the premises ... Hence they EXPECT you to show up cold! And I promise you new shooters don't know to show up cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 14 minutes ago, bluewaters182 said: And I promise you new shooters don't know to show up cold. That's going to vary GREATLY by where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, bluewaters182 said: New to the forum. Long time listener, first time caller. My question, and surprise that no one has asked this question is.... Per the rule is states 2.5 Unloading/Loading Station 2.5.1 If it is possible that some competitors arriving at a range where a USPSA match is being held may be in possession of a loaded firearm on their person (e.g. law enforcement officers, persons duly authorized to carry a loaded firearm, etc.), match organizers should provide an Unloading/Loading Station to enable such competitors to safely unload their firearms prior to entering the range, and to safely load their firearms again on departure from the range. The Unloading/Loading Station should be conveniently located outside the entrance to the range (or outside the portion of the range allocated to the USPSA match), it should be clearly sign-marked and it must include a suitable impact zone. 2.5.2 Where no Unloading/Loading station is provided, a competitor who arrives at a match in possession of a loaded firearm and proceeds immediately to a match official for the express purpose of safely unloading the firearm shall not be subject to disqualification per the provisions of Rule 10.5.13. What is this if possible stuff? Of course it's possible! In fact it's very close to being impossible to have people show up at a gun range not carrying a loaded firearm. Why, is this not standard at matches to have a place where you can safely unload a loaded firarm? Granted I have only shot at 3 different clubs, but to my knowledge not a single one had a station to undload a loaded firearm. This seams crazy to me, and ignoring a giant elephant in the room. It is pretty standard to have a place to unload your loaded firearm and by that I mean any of the random bays at the range. Most ranges you roll up and you ask for a place to unload your gun and they'll tell you go to the back one of the bays and get it unloaded. Some clubs might even ro to clear your gun. Once again, there is no reason to make this complicated. Edited March 10 by RJH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2.5 has been mentioned several times in this thread. Even in Texas 99% of ranges don't have those. Most shooters don't shoot their carry gear and a lot of don't-ask-don't-tell goes on I'd guess. People that do show up hot on the bays can quickly and easily request a RO to fix that for the duration of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 How many shooters here if you were new and inexperienced with both range and match procedures figure it would be a good idea to just show up and take your chances to shoot a match without making any effort to get some information from range or match representatives? That's not how I went about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 hours ago, bluewaters182 said: You are correct in this assumption. So for the remainder of the states where concealed carry is common (like mine) there are no such unloading stations that I have seen. Not saying they don't exist, they surely don't seem to be common. Especially by the answers in this thread. And I am sorry you live in such a state sir. idaho resident here, our local range has an unloading station between the parking lot and the main pistol pits, but it is rarely used because most of us don’t shoot our carry guns in matches. on the occasions where i do shoot my carry gunin an idpa match, i unload it at home and risk the deadly 8 mile drive with an empty gun on my belt. i haven’t died yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, MHicks said: How many shooters here if you were new and inexperienced with both range and match procedures figure it would be a good idea to just show up and take your chances to shoot a match without making any effort to get some information from range or match representatives? That's not how I went about it. excellent point, but even so, we are not dicks when noobs show up with loaded guns and no clue. we simply walk them over to an empty bay and give them a quick briefing and supervise the unloading. its not complicated unless one or both parties decide to make it complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 hours ago, MHicks said: How many shooters here if you were new and inexperienced with both range and match procedures figure it would be a good idea to just show up and take your chances to shoot a match without making any effort to get some information from range or match representatives? That's not how I went about it. I must be the oddball that reads the rule book, asks questions and tries to be prepared before setting foot at a range. I would rather show up without a gun to just watch/help and learn the ropes a bit before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 TLDR: it's a dick move lame to DQ somebody for asking where to unload. It's also lame to show up late to your first match and have no idea what's going on or what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 11 hours ago, shred said: TLDR: it's a dick move lame to DQ somebody for asking where to unload. It's also lame to show up late to your first match and have no idea what's going on or what to do. I agree but I also think with new shooters they just don't know what they don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 25 minutes ago, ddc said: I agree but I also think with new shooters they just don't know what they don't know. Of course. I also didn't know what I didn't know. It wasn't a back breaking effort to pick up the phone and find out what I needed to know. I think it's a little more important to take that step in a sport that involves firearms compared to some other hobbies. But I do understand that we want to help newcomers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 18 minutes ago, MHicks said: Of course. I also didn't know what I didn't know. It wasn't a back breaking effort to pick up the phone and find out what I needed to know. I think it's a little more important to take that step in a sport that involves firearms compared to some other hobbies. But I do understand that we want to help newcomers. I hear you. The fact that it is firearms related makes a difference. I think we should try to give them some room but there is a point beyond which you have to sit them down and have a talk. Hopefully we can do it offline but if it has to be at a match then so be it. In this particular case given what appears to have happened I believe they should have been taken aside, unloaded, given a quick rules check, and then let's all go shoot. Edited March 12 by ddc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 On 3/3/2024 at 7:46 PM, scroadkill said: LEO showed up to the match a bit late, first match and missed the briefings. once on stage asked where to clear duty gun Emphasis added. "Hey, I am Authorized Personnel." At least he is not the cop who refused to unload his off duty gun at a match "I am required to be armed at all times." Wishy-washy MD let him shoot. At least he is not the guy(s) with the pocket gun "If they don't know I have it, they can't tell me to unload it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Jim Watson said: At least he is not the cop who refused to unload his off duty gun at a match "I am required to be armed at all times." Wishy-washy MD let him shoot. In some jurisdictions and units that is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 5 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said: In some jurisdictions and units that is correct. They wouldn't be shooting at my match then, and shouldn't be shooting at any USPSA match, and shouldn't be shooting at any USPSA match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Topics like this are why we hold a new to comp shooting class every 1-2 months. A single long day to cover the biggest rules, how scoring works, equipement rules, teach about things like walls and fault lines in a classroom, then go onto the range and cover lateral movement with a reload and uprange movement with a reload since most are from a square range or a 360 degree world since they aren't used to our 180 limits. Then we move to an actual stage and how to understand and use a WSB, how to approach a stage, the tape and reset process, and how to be a good squad mate. Help them prepare for their first match. We cover parking lots, CCW/duty folks and how to proceed as well upon arrival to a match. It's been well received and we often have a waitlist each time. 2/3 of the students actually start shooting matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, RJH said: They wouldn't be shooting at my match then, and shouldn't be shooting at any USPSA match, and shouldn't be shooting at any USPSA match You don't like the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, Zincwarrior said: In some jurisdictions and units that is correct. Very true! 2 hours ago, RJH said: They wouldn't be shooting at my match then, and shouldn't be shooting at any USPSA match, and shouldn't be shooting at any USPSA match Being a department firearms instructor for 14 years and a USPSA shooter for 27 years, it's been my experience that attitudes like this is why we don't have more LEOs involved in this sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 44 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said: You don't like the police? You going to let them break 180 too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 14 minutes ago, 392heminut said: Very true! Being a department firearms instructor for 14 years and a USPSA shooter for 27 years, it's been my experience that attitudes like this is why we don't have more LEOs involved in this sport! It's been my experience that many popo try the sport, either point their guns up range and don't come back or get beat by a kid and don't come back. Since cold range is a big safety rule that EVERYONE is supposed to follow, I'll ask you too, are you going to let them break 180 too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 53 minutes ago, 392heminut said: Very true! Being a department firearms instructor for 14 years and a USPSA shooter for 27 years, it's been my experience that attitudes like this is why we don't have more LEOs involved in this sport! you mean the attitude of jerk off cops that think rules dont apply to them ? Yep I totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 minutes ago, Joe4d said: you mean the attitude of jerk off cops that think rules dont apply to them ? Yep I totally agree Careful with that attitude, you will hurt that popo's feelings and he won't show up to the match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, RJH said: Careful with that attitude, you will hurt that popo's feelings and he won't show up to the match Seems you're the one with an attitude, no one else seems to be badmouthing anyone, just having a discussion. You've definitely convinced me not to shoot at any matches in your area! Not because of any kind of hurt feelings, I'm beyond that sort of thing, life's just to short to put up with some things. I'm done with this conversation! Have a great day! Edited March 12 by 392heminut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 It's not an opinion or an attitude, ultimately: 5.1.9 and 10.5.7 are very clear, and offer no wiggle room whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 16 minutes ago, 392heminut said: Seems you're the one with an attitude, no one else seems to be badmouthing anyone, just having a discussion. You've definitely convinced me not to shoot at any matches in your area! Not because of any kind of hurt feelings, I'm beyond that sort of thing, life's just to short to put up with some things. I'm done with this conversation! Have a great day! You're right, we were having a nice conversation about the rules and I simply said that I would enforce them at any match I ran. One feller seem to take that as an attack on the police by asking if I didn't like police, and you apparently took that as an attitude problem, since you said the attitude of enforcing the rules was a reason that LEO wouldn't go to a match. I'm not exactly sure why you would think enforcing the rules would be an issue So basically I'm not sure why y'all have an issue with enforcing the rules equally to everyone. But by me stating I would enforce the rules equally to everyone, I was questioned on whether or not I like the police, and you said that attitude would keep people from the coming to a match. In fairness, if the attitude of enforcing the rules keeps people from coming to matches, I don't really want them there anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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