RJH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 21 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: It's not an opinion or an attitude, ultimately: 5.1.9 and 10.5.7 are very clear, and offer no wiggle room whatsoever. Not to mention 10.5.13, 5.2.1, 2.5.2, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Would have been interesting for this thread to start WITHOUT mentioning that the shooter was a cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 16 minutes ago, konkapot said: Would have been interesting for this thread to start WITHOUT mentioning that the shooter was a cop. In my initial response to this thread, I said I would have unloaded the guy whether he was a cop or just some random Joe with his carry gun and we would have all shot and been happy, or something pretty close to that So as far as I'm concerned I would do the same whether it was a cop or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 why I said in first page,, If LEO matters to anyone, includiing said LEO, the they are wrong... No special rules or special people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 7 hours ago, 392heminut said: Very true! Being a department firearms instructor for 14 years and a USPSA shooter for 27 years, it's been my experience that attitudes like this is why we don't have more LEOs involved in this sport! we have a s#!t ton of leos involved in this sport. at my local range we treat them just like everyone else, with courtesy, respect and enforcement of the rules. no special treatment needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 I've only been doing this since 2000. Shot club matches in A1, A2, A6, and A8. There's been an underlying anti-cop spin everywhere I've been. "Who do they think they are" combined with "wow they really suck at shooting." People are quick to deny the bias, but I've seen it too often. I was a cop when I started and was still a cop when I made GM. The following 20-ish years were as a non-cop. I'd be $5 that this thread would have gone a different route had the initial post not mentioned the cop part. If you're a ACAB type of guy keep it moving. Not germane to the topic at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 18 hours ago, RJH said: You going to let them break 180 too? Law beats rules. All you have to do is follow the rules for their competition piece. Back to the OP, I don't see how this could be an issue. The competitor asked what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 21 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said: Law beats rules. All you have to do is follow the rules for their competition piece. Back to the OP, I don't see how this could be an issue. The competitor asked what to do. Sorry, no. If you are shooting USPSA you follow the rules, if you can't do that find some other match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 23 minutes ago, RJH said: Sorry, no. If you are shooting USPSA you follow the rules, if you can't do that find some other match. Or the range can throw out your club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 20 hours ago, Zincwarrior said: You don't like the police? Not the point. The rules prohibit it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 7 minutes ago, Sarge said: Not the point. The rules prohibit it I know right, try to enforce rules in your automatically a cop hater LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 16 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said: Or the range can throw out your club. Throw out a club that brings in more money to the range than anything else over a cop getting to not follow the rules, that doesn't make a lot of sense. In fact it seems like you're supporting blackmail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 2 hours ago, konkapot said: There's been an underlying anti-cop spin everywhere I've been. "Who do they think they are" combined with "wow they really suck at shooting." People are quick to deny the bias, but I've seen it too often. That is strange for me to read. I have always felt like locally we are very happy to see police participate in the shooting sports and very welcoming to them. Perhaps it is a part of the country thing or perhaps the 'always one in every crowd' thing messes with perception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Enough of this. Posts are being deleted. Anyone that posted A**B, if they knew what it was or wasn't or couldn't be bothered to look it up is now on moderated postings for a week. Stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sarge said: Not the point. The rules prohibit it This is fair, and its a discussion in the rules forum so is the best answer. As an aside, the discussion related to the permutations of "loading up" and "unloading" in the parking lot are interesting and probably have been the subject of many discussions. As noted in Central Texas, we typically get the statement by the match director to handle that at a safe table or berm under RO supervision. Its interesting that other areas may be diffferent. Edited March 13 by Zincwarrior adding color Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 11 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said: This is fair, and its a discussion in the rules forum so is the best answer. As an aside, the discussion related to the permutations of "loading up" and "unloading" in the parking lot are interesting and probably have been the subject of many discussions. As noted in Central Texas, we typically get the statement by the match director to handle that at a safe table or berm under RO supervision. Its interesting that other areas may be diffferent. Where in Central Texas do you shoot? We may know each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Austin and north of Austin, Florence, Copperas Cove. I am just a hack so probably don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 minute ago, Zincwarrior said: Austin and north of Austin, Florence, Copperas Cove. I am just a hack so probably don't. Yeah, your little south and east of me. I usually shoot coleman, albany, occasionally double tap or San Angelo. Three gun at Abilene and sometimes Breckenridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 17 hours ago, RJH said: Yeah, your little south and east of me. I usually shoot coleman, albany, occasionally double tap or San Angelo. Three gun at Abilene and sometimes Breckenridge Very excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I've been a cop for 32 years, and I'd never heard of that till this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 3/9/2024 at 3:52 PM, Farmer said: So if on duty LEO’s, FBI ect show up you are required to disarm them? Not joking. Yes, have done it in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 On 3/10/2024 at 2:20 PM, IVC said: This applies to spectators too, not just law enforcement. The DQ under 10.5.13 applies to competitors since non-competitors cannot be DQ-ed from a match they aren't participating in. They could be asked to leave instead, but there are no specific USPSA rules that would require or authorize MD/RM to ask legally armed non-participants to leave, which would be the only remedy. In fact, I am not sure whether it could be a range violation to be legally armed at a cold range while not participating in the shooting activities and whether the host organization could enforce it in any way. Rule 3.3 allows rule deviation only for compliance with the local law (and having a CCW is not violation of the local law), while the only other rule that provides additional authority to the host organization is 10.7.3 about prohibited substances (where the host is implied to be able to have additional rules that are not covered by the USPSA). Host organizations - meaning the club that owns/runs the range - can pretty much ask anyone to leave the premises. If the host organizations asks you to leave and not come back, under penalty of trespass - or if they want to forbid concealed carry on their property, they can. Being a USPSA member won't save you in that instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 3 hours ago, Nik Habicht said: Host organizations - meaning the club that owns/runs the range - can pretty much ask anyone to leave the premises. If the host organizations asks you to leave and not come back, under penalty of trespass - or if they want to forbid concealed carry on their property, they can. Being a USPSA member won't save you in that instance. The one exception (in Texas) is the signage businesses use to keep licensed carry holders from carrying on their premises, does not apply to off duty or even retired cops. Of course this has nothing to do with USPSA/IDPA rules. Just the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Trespass with a firearm has enhanced penalties in many states too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 On 3/19/2024 at 6:27 AM, RangerTrace said: The one exception (in Texas) is the signage businesses use to keep licensed carry holders from carrying on their premises, does not apply to off duty or even retired cops. Of course this has nothing to do with USPSA/IDPA rules. Just the law. Sure. But I'm assuming that if a host venue decided that a particular person was no longer welcome on their premises - they could so inform the person, on penalty of trespass, no? That would never be my first move - but we did once have to ask someone to leave the range and never to return - but it was the host club that ultimately issued that request, and followed up with a cease and desist letter from the club's attorney..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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