3-Gun Recession?

[twodownzero]

SASS and 3 gun have the same problem--shoving shells into a shotgun isn't a sport.

[louu]

Can the mods change the name of this pointless thread to something like "show us on the doll where the shotgun touched you"? Or how about "half of the forum loves shotguns and the other half hates shotguns".

 

Or better yet just close it and move on because this thread and everyone in it, including me, isn't going to change anything for the better of this game... Yes, game.. 

[Racinready300ex]

5 hours ago, louu said:

Can the mods change the name of this pointless thread to something like "show us on the doll where the shotgun touched you"? Or how about "half of the forum loves shotguns and the other half hates shotguns".

 

Or better yet just close it and move on because this thread and everyone in it, including me, isn't going to change anything for the better of this game... Yes, game.. 

 

It's funny when people complain about to much complaining. 

[ima45dv8]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

It's funny when people complain about to much complaining. 

Especially on the internet!

[-JCN-]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:07 PM, Blockader said:

As the progenitor of this thread I am going to go ahead and upgrade the 3-Gun situation from a recession to a full on Depression. 

 

On 7/10/2021 at 5:36 PM, Boomstick303 said:

I think 2 Gun is going to take off. Seems like a lot more interest in it versus 3 Gun. Now just have to have some clubs start offering 2 Gun competitions. 

 

On 7/13/2021 at 11:31 AM, Blockader said:

 

Shotguns bad, eating tide pods good. Got it. 

 

On 9/21/2021 at 11:07 PM, smoothdraw said:

I travel to 3 gun matches in 2015-2017.  I stopped shooting 3 gun because it is taking too much time away from my family.  Even local match is a day.  We carry 3 gun and ammos for 3 gun, starting to be really expensive and ridiculous and only pro's getting the major prizes.  

 

I'm a paper GM in USPSA CO so take it FWIW.

 

Around here 3-gun is almost a meme like IDPA.

 

Almost all the "competitive" people in those sports have migrated to local USPSA because that's where the heat is at.

 

Personally, I started shooting with handguns because I wanted to develop skills that might be applicable to CCW or home defense. I don't hunt.

 

USPSA has been great for that. Now that I'm reasonably proficient with a pistol, I find myself wanting to dabble with a rifle and being a civilian probably the best application of that is PCC competition within IDPA or USPSA given the distance of targets I'm likely to encounter in a home defense scenario (and not being a hunter).

 

With a number of USPSA clubs allowing dual entry, I can shoot pistol and PCC without taking any additional time away from family and still getting to hang out with my friends.

 

I don't see 3 gun as offering me anything meaningful from a shotgun defensive standpoint and I don't really care to shoot rifles at 200 yards either (did I mention I don't hunt?).

 

I love shotguns... as shotguns. I think a morning shooting sporting clays with buddies and having a beer and burger in the clubhouse is one of the best shooting sports mornings. But not as a pseudo tactical game that doesn't apply to my utilization of the firearm for self defense.

 

So no desire to do 3 gun. From a self defense standpoint, I'd rather be very good at pistol (since it's what I most likely will have available) then mediocre at pistol, long range rifle and reloading shotguns.

 

IMO of course. 

 

I can do a local USPSA match and enter pistol and PCC, get there by 9am and be done by 1pm.

 

 

[Kirkster]

Our 3Gun was doing pretty well until 2020 spring/summer when the bottom fell out.  I think the dollar a round had a lot to do with it, and now you can’t get cheap available shotgun ammo at the moment either.  When I started 3Gun 2 years ago we were pulling 50~70 people a match.  Now we have a hard time hitting 30.

 

So that has made our 3Gun format change a little bit but time will tell if it will come back.

 

In the mean time our Falling Steel and fledgling USPSA matches are well attended

[davsco]

did my first 3g match in well over a year last weekend as there was nothing else going on.  damn i hate all the crap that shotgun brings.  chokes, slugs without a rifled barrel, belt caddies interfering with slung rifles and everything else.  love 2g!  and of course uspsa.

[Intheshaw1]

We have a match scheduled in a week that looks mostly full. I'd go but I'm a big bow hunter so that's where I'll be.

 

Honestly, after shooting USPSA all year and carry optics specific, I don't know if I'll bother with 3gun. Matches are shorter, set up and tear down is shorter, and reset is usually easier and faster. Personally, I've been enjoying getting done shooting around 2 vs 5 or 6.

[twodownzero]

I love the idea of 3 gun.  I've decided that I really don't like 3 gun though.  Make it 2 gun and fun and I'll show up.  Otherwise I'm staying home.

[TonytheTiger]

1 hour ago, twodownzero said:

 Make it 2 gun and fun and I'll show up.  Otherwise I'm staying home.

I doubt it. UML has been pushing hard to get all the "if it was two guns I'd be there" crowd to come out, but they're  always busy Sunday. All the Sunday's in fact.

Edited November 4, 2021 by TonytheTiger

[TonytheTiger]

I started shooting USPSA since this thread started. It's a lot of fun, less gear, less stress, less cost and shorter match days. I can see why people like it.

But it's not enough to scratch the itch. 3 gun is hard. It kicks you in the nuts. A lot. 3 guns have to work. Multiple ammos need to be zeroed. It takes all day regardless of how bad the weather always gets. It's a whole different level of struggle than USPSA. If that's not your bag you'll never like 3 gun no matter what accommodations are made for you.

[TonytheTiger]

10 hours ago, -JCN- said:

Personally, I started shooting with handguns because I wanted to develop skills that might be applicable to CCW or home defense. I don't hunt.

 

USPSA has been great for that. Now that I'm reasonably proficient with a pistol, I find myself wanting to dabble with a rifle and being a civilian probably the best application of that is PCC competition within IDPA or USPSA given the distance of targets I'm likely to encounter in a home defense scenario (and not being a hunter).

 

I don't see 3 gun as offering me anything meaningful from a shotgun defensive standpoint and I don't really care to shoot rifles at 200 yards either (did I mention I don't hunt?).

 

I love shotguns... as shotguns. I think a morning shooting sporting clays with buddies and having a beer and burger in the clubhouse is one of the best shooting sports mornings. But not as a pseudo tactical game that doesn't apply to my utilization of the firearm for self defense.

That's an unusual perspective.

I can count on one hand the amount of 3 gunners I've met over the last 5 years and hundreds of shooters that equate the sport to anything tactical or defensive. Most see it for what it is. A game.

Most hunters I know would rather not shoot over 200 yards, while most sport shooters love the challenge of shooting a rifle at rifle distances.

[3gunDMD]

15 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

I started shooting USPSA since this thread started. It's a lot of fun, less gear, less stress, less cost and shorter match days. I can see why people like it.

But it's not enough to scratch the itch. 3 gun is hard. It kicks you in the nuts. A lot. 3 guns have to work. Multiple ammos need to be zeroed. It takes all day regardless of how bad the weather always gets. It's a whole different level of struggle than USPSA. If that's not your bag you'll never like 3 gun no matter what accommodations are made for you.

Out of curiosity what division are you shooting in USPSA?    I feel the same way.  USPSA is fun but I always leave wishing I'd shot some shotgun and rifle as well.  

[TonytheTiger]

9 minutes ago, 3gunDMD said:

Out of curiosity what division are you shooting in USPSA?    I feel the same way.  USPSA is fun but I always leave wishing I'd shot some shotgun and rifle as well.  

Limited or PCC.

[-JCN-]

21 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

But it's not enough to scratch the itch. 3 gun is hard. It kicks you in the nuts. A lot. 3 guns have to work. Multiple ammos need to be zeroed. It takes all day regardless of how bad the weather always gets. It's a whole different level of struggle than USPSA. If that's not your bag you'll never like 3 gun no matter what accommodations are made for you.

 

Yeah, I spent decades getting kicked in the nuts training for work and now I can relax and enjoy the fruits of my labor. Not interested in running marathons or climbing mountains either. 
 

Also consider that a tiny Midwestern USPSA region might just be a little different from a large region with a number of National top 10 competitors and GMs on each squad. 
 

So your perspective of what USPSA is might be a little colored perhaps. 
 

Getting to GM level shooting ability in USPSA was a fun challenge for me. 
 

But one I could do without being away from my wife and daughter. Balance is key. If I’m going to get kicked in the nuts it better have a better payoff than a little plastic trophy lol. 
 

 

14 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

That's an unusual perspective.

I can count on one hand the amount of 3 gunners I've met over the last 5 years and hundreds of shooters that equate the sport to anything tactical or defensive. Most see it for what it is. A game.

Most hunters I know would rather not shoot over 200 yards, while most sport shooters love the challenge of shooting a rifle at rifle distances.

 

Yes and that’s maybe why 3 gun is dead. 

[TonytheTiger]

9 hours ago, -JCN- said:

Yes and that’s maybe why 3 gun is dead. 

Because it's not tactical enough for you and you don't hunt therefore you don't like rifles?

Edited November 4, 2021 by TonytheTiger

[twodownzero]

10 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

I doubt it. UML has been pushing hard to get all the "if it was two guns I'd be there" crowd to come out, but they're  always busy Sunday. All the Sunday's in fact.

Fine with me.  It was this past month that was it for me.  Literally 3 of us showed up.  Hours to set up and tear down to shoot for maybe 2 minutes?  No thanks.

[-JCN-]

Just now, TonytheTiger said:

Because it's not tactical enough for you?

You’re objectively a good rifle / PCC shooter and should take pride in that. 
 

You’re a good fit for 3 gun and I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. 

 

I’m not sure the ego and emotional investment in the sport will let you hear or accept what I’m saying. 
 

I would rather be a GM with a pistol than an M with a PCC and a C with a pistol. 
 

Because that’s my anticipated firearm use pattern for self defense where I live.

 

I’m looking for value for my time investment. 
 

I would rather shoot a USPSA match with pistol and PCC in the morning and then go do a round of sporting clays in the afternoon than do 3 gun. 
 

The sporting clays could have some application to bird hunting if I chose to do that in the future. 
 

So it doesn’t have to be tactical, but it has to be more than just a game. 
 

I don’t do steel challenge either. 

 

[Racinready300ex]

10 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

I started shooting USPSA since this thread started. It's a lot of fun, less gear, less stress, less cost and shorter match days. I can see why people like it.

But it's not enough to scratch the itch. 3 gun is hard. It kicks you in the nuts. A lot. 3 guns have to work. Multiple ammos need to be zeroed. It takes all day regardless of how bad the weather always gets. It's a whole different level of struggle than USPSA. If that's not your bag you'll never like 3 gun no matter what accommodations are made for you.

 

This is probably it for me. When 3 gun was really booming I had friends try to talk me into it. But my thinking. I'm going to need either 3 guns and lots of spare parts, or better maybe 6 guns. All the upgrades for them, plus mag pouches etc. Then probably reloading equipment for everything and components. At this point I would of spent a considerable amount of money. This is just to get off the ground.

 

 

On top of that there are no local matches, so lots of travel and more time away from my wife and kid. Different rules in different area's, longer days, longer reset, split my training time and budget between 3 guns. The selling point was typically great prizes. That isn't enough of a offset for me. 

 

 

2 Gun sounds interesting but.... I have the stuff, I've started shooting PCC so I'm already starting to train that rifle stuff. But to really move forward it would take something like USPSA having a consistent rule set, establishing some matches and a consistent format. Making it more like uspsa is now. Without that I might shoot a 2-gun match, but it'll be just for funzies. I wont take it serious I probably wont travel to big matches. 

[3gunDMD]

28 minutes ago, twodownzero said:

Fine with me.  It was this past month that was it for me.  Literally 3 of us showed up.  Hours to set up and tear down to shoot for maybe 2 minutes?  No thanks.

 

I know it's a bit of a drive for you but Del Norte Gun Club up in Rio Rancho occasionally does 2 gun matches and is starting to do a "black rifle" match every so often.  First black rifle match was a ton of fun and had an excellent turnout (around 40 shooters with more on the waitlist).

[gerritm]

Here in the Houston metro area 3-gun matches have declined. Not so much attendance, but clubs holding them. Several clubs are now offering on occasion 2-gun matches, pistol/rifle/pcc without SG. Some even allowing 22's to keep attendance up.

 

One of our best 3-gun matches in the area is a modified UML match that basically allows almost any combo of guns to shoot. Rules are simple for shooting/scoring, 1 in A or 2 anywhere, paper is pistol, pcc, 22rilfe, or AR. Steel is pistol, pcc, 22, or shotgun. Whatever division you must shoot at least 3 targets with 2nd gun in stage. Has 1 stage out to about 100 yards for rifle only of your choice.

 

gerritm

[TonytheTiger]

11 hours ago, -JCN- said:

You’re objectively a good rifle / PCC shooter and should take pride in that. 
 

You’re a good fit for 3 gun and I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. 

 

I’m not sure the ego and emotional investment in the sport will let you hear or accept what I’m saying. 
 

I would rather be a GM with a pistol than an M with a PCC and a C with a pistol. 
 

Because that’s my anticipated firearm use pattern for self defense where I live.

 

I’m looking for value for my time investment. 
 

I would rather shoot a USPSA match with pistol and PCC in the morning and then go do a round of sporting clays in the afternoon than do 3 gun. 
 

The sporting clays could have some application to bird hunting if I chose to do that in the future. 
 

So it doesn’t have to be tactical, but it has to be more than just a game. 
 

I don’t do steel challenge either. 

 

That all sounds fair enough.

[TonytheTiger]

11 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

But to really move forward it would take something like USPSA having a consistent rule set, establishing some matches and a consistent format. Making it more like uspsa is now. Without that I might shoot a 2-gun match, but it'll be just for funzies. I wont take it serious I probably wont travel to big matches. 

3 gun needs this. I know mentioning a common ruleset will get you burnt at the stake in most 3g groups, but they're missing the forest for the trees. 

During my short time as an MD I used the 3 Gun Nation ruleset because regardless of the way the organization burnt bridges they had a solid, simple rulebook that was stable with no changes, everyone knew it and if someone could find a hole in it it deferred to the USPSA book. But oUtlaW4LyfE! has a lot of fanatical acolytes so it's the way we do things.

[TonytheTiger]

On 11/3/2021 at 6:50 PM, Intheshaw1 said:

We have a match scheduled in a week that looks mostly full. I'd go but I'm a big bow hunter so that's where I'll be.

It's fixing to have the biggest turnout of a WI local all year. Pretty surprising considering the potential for crap weather.

[Intheshaw1]

10 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

It's fixing to have the biggest turnout of a WI local all year. Pretty surprising considering the potential for crap weather.

Yeah, I think it's the only one that looks to actually be held this year. Most have been cancelled but the September match did have people registered but it double booked with SC and got the boot.

 

I was going to try to set up a single bay mini match but the rules folks at the club sort of came down on that.

 

Hopefully shotgun ammo is available next year so I can at least shoot some 3gun. Otherwise I'll likely get a PCC to quench my rifle thirst.