Gene_WI

Kids, job, family... I don't have all day. Sorry.

Do you have a link to them? The app does not have any diagrams.

I think a bonus of having less divisions would be better designed stages at matches. You don't have to accommodate everyone, and can design challenging course of fire.

Its the nature of man, can't make everyone happy. I think 3 divisions would be great, simplify things. As much as I want to see "heavy metal" be a thing again, less division complexity is better.

What I think is needed in many shooting sports is a "practical" division when it comes to gear. This is a constant debate about what is "practical" in the shooting sports. USPSA production is a never ending drama fest in regards to this. Practical IMHO for 3gun would be, 5.56 rifle 30 round mags, Tube fed shotgun 8+1 capacity, RDS equipped pistol 140mm mags no magwells no comps. CCW, house clearing etc... training has no business in competition. I don't think we need that. There are other venues/events/methods to train for that.

The ability to preform complex firearms related tasks on the clock is very useful.

I am in agreement. Shooting sports teach proper weapon handling, marksmanship, movement and they introduce some stress. Combat and tactics are a different beast, and I don;t think they can be made into a sport. The gamer tube fed shotgun are probably the most impractical class of weapons I have seen in the shooting sports. Do you think there is room/need/interest in having a more practical division in 3gun? Or should there be a totally different sport? I think USPSA got things right with carry optics. PRS is going through an existential crisis of gamer rifles and a general gear race. So I think the question of having more practical divisions is valid for many shooting sports, not just 3gun.

I got into the shooting sports after training with Mike Pannone and PatMac. Both seem to think that USPSA is very practical training. Learning the fine motor skills needed to reload a tube shotgun on the clock are very useful IMHO.

Our sport is practical shooting. Magfed shotguns are fun and awesome, but they have very little practical application. The VR80 might be a great entry level gamer gun, but it has zero purpose outside of that.

Technology is advancing, division should do the same. Carry optics is the (current reality) and the inevitable future for duty/defense/carry handguns. These are not open guns, they need their own division. I think that USPSA got carry optics right.

This is a very nice rule set. I think the stealth division is a good way of dealing with "carry optics" like set ups. I will for sure talk to my local match director about these rules.

And a +1 on this. Slide mounted optics belong in tactical.

What pistol are these dots mounted on. A 2011 running 9 major with a comp, huge magwell and 170mm mags? Open is expensive no matter how you slice it or dice it. Sure you can run a stock glock with a red dot on it, but its not competitive set up. I like open and its the king of division both in 3 gun and USPSA. But open is not carry optics , and as I said before carry optics are the future for duty, defense, and carry pistols.

I respectfully disagree on divisions. Currently there is no "carry optics" equivalent in 3 gun, and that sucks. RDS equipped pistols are the future, and the current reality. There needs to be division for these that is not open. Comps etc... There need to be clear rules on these, and also rules for suppressors on rifles.

I can echo some of what Sean is saying. But here is what would make me love 3 gun. First and foremost, make accuracy count, two Alphas on paper should not be equivalent to two Deltas. Second, make rifle targets more challenging and maybe incorporate more PRS style rifle shooting, barricades, odd shooting positions and greater range. Stop trying to be all inclusive, .22, PCC only and 2 gun divisions don't belong at a 3 gun events. There are plenty of .22 only completions. PCC only is covered by USPSA. And 2 gun should be its own thing with its own rules. Divisions, here is what I would make. Production: Intermediate caliber rifle with one optic. 30 round mags no comps. Tube fed shotgun with 8+1 capacity. Iron sights pistol 15 round mag capacity, no comps no magwells. Tac optics: Intermediate caliber rifle with upto one magnified and one reflex optic. 30 round mags no comps. Tube fed shotgun with 8+1 capacity. Carry optics pistol 15 round mag capacity, Limited: Same as production but with no magazine capacity restrictions. Pistols can have magwells rifles can have comps. Pistol mags must be 140mm. Open: Same as now, no limits. Heavy metal: .308 rifle with one optic, 20 round mags. Tube fed pump shotgun must be 12 gauge, 10+1 max. Iron sights pistol, must be .40+ 10 round mags. Heman: .308 (or more) irons sighted rifle, 20 round mags. Tube fed pump shotgun must be 12 gauge, 8+1 max. Iron sights pistol, must be .45 8 round mags. (Should be a bonus for bolt guns) Banstate: Should be considered. Just my 5 cents. Happy New year to everyone.