Nice guns dont make better shooters

[Kwontanamo]

so...buy once cry once?

[gargoil66]

Not sure what 'nice' means in these terms so let me say that a good firearm will give the shooter a better chance of performing better.  The saying that 'the easiest point you can make is the one you buy', is very true providing the person knows what it is he is buying.  

 

Guys who start with something that is good enough to be competitive will probably use it for a pretty long time and will probably know definitively what new part of maybe total firearm they need to be better.  May be a better bet than buying the very best and trying to learn how to use it without blasting someone in the process.  

 

As for comparing competitive firearms to something like cycling -- no go for me.  A guy buys a POS mountain bike and heads to the hills has a much better chance of severe injury when his poorly made mountain bike disintegrates as he is going down a trail at a decent speed.  A cheap pistol will probably just malfunction.  Hell, a really good pistol probably has a greater chance of malfunctioning but at least the guy will walk away from it.

 

I am going through this right now with Nordic racing boots.  Have a bunch of year end sale boots that were good enough for my skill level but I realized that my skill level is at the point where I know exactly what I want in a racing boot.  So I dumped a bunch of money on a pair of really good racing boots yesterday.  Immediate improvement in performance that I wouldn't have noticed five years ago. 

 

One more thing that I think is true of any sport is that the more advanced the technology involved with the equipment, the better the skill level needed to see the technology improve performance.  So could well be that a guy can get in over his head with the pistol, rifle, mountain bike, etc and actually be dangerous with the tool until he gets a basic understanding of how the thing works.  

 

Now will someone give me their obsolete $5K Trek or Cannondale road bike please?  He, he. 

 

GG66

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BARRYJ]

I don't want my equipment to be the limiting factor on how good I do something.  Don't want to leave the range saying I could have done better with a better gun.  Or leave a golf course saying I could have done better with a better set of clubs.

[Brooke]

8 hours ago, BARRYJ said:

I don't want my equipment to be the limiting factor on how good I do something.  Don't want to leave the range saying I could have done better with a better gun.  Or leave a golf course saying I could have done better with a better set of clubs.

That's my opinion too. I doubt you can buy yourself into huge improvement but you sure can cheap yourself into poor performance. As has been said the pure thrill of great equipment causes one to be more focused and to enjoy practice more.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Brooke

[gargoil66]

7 hours ago, Brooke said:

That's my opinion too. I doubt you can buy yourself into huge improvement but you sure can cheap yourself into poor performance. As has been said the pure thrill of great equipment causes one to be more focused and to enjoy practice more.

Brooke:

 

I like the statement " I doubt you can buy yourself into huge improvement but you sure can cheap yourself into poor performance."  I also like 'the easiest point you can make is the one you buy.'  Agree pretty much.  Always nuanced though.

 

A huge improvement may be one X every match.  May be cutting a second off a total.  Even a half a second.  Just takes a very high level of shooter to realize that something he did to or bought for his gear correlated directly to that extra X or half second. 

 

Equipment is generally not the major issue for a new shooter unless it is so specialized and sensitive (trigger) that a new shooter becomes overwhelmed with it and ends up doing something very dangerous when under match pressure.  

 

I am not saying that someone should advise a new shooter against getting a top end pistol and sighting system.  Just that maybe the very best may be more problematic than useful when a shooter is developing his skills.  The fewer distractors the better.

 

Hard question.  Having thought that getting the best made was the best way to go, then seeing that maybe simple was a better way to go, and finally settling for something in the middle, I think that a novice is better off with a solid, out of the box pistol or revolver and go from there. 

 

GG

[Halen]

On 3/4/2021 at 1:55 PM, ltdmstr said:

 

I'm still riding an IF Ti Deluxe single speed 29er that's prob 10-15 years old.  Guess that's kinda like shooting single stack.

 

I have an IF cyclocross bike that I raced for years and wouldn't sell or trade it. The bike is heavy as hell but I love riding a steel framed rig.

[ltdmstr]

3 hours ago, Halen said:

 

I have an IF cyclocross bike that I raced for years and wouldn't sell or trade it. The bike is heavy as hell but I love riding a steel framed rig.

 

I bet that's a nice bike.  Surprised it's heavy.  Must be steel frame.  My Ti Deluxe weighs about 17 lb, but it's a single speed and no suspension.  On XC trails, I can keep up with anyone.  And it pretty much goes up hills by itself.  It was built by Lloyd Graves and some of the original crew at IF before they sold the company.  No idea what's up with them now.  Have owned dozens of high end bikes over the years, and nothing ever fit me and rode like that bike.  As for cyclocross, I ride mostly dirt trails around here on a Moots Pyschlo-X with SRAM 1x11.

[Halen]

19 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

I bet that's a nice bike.  Surprised it's heavy.  Must be steel frame.  My Ti Deluxe weighs about 17 lb, but it's a single speed and no suspension.  On XC trails, I can keep up with anyone.  And it pretty much goes up hills by itself.  It was built by Lloyd Graves and some of the original crew at IF before they sold the company.  No idea what's up with them now.  Have owned dozens of high end bikes over the years, and nothing ever fit me and rode like that bike.  As for cyclocross, I ride mostly dirt trails around here on a Moots Pyschlo-X with SRAM 1x11.

 

That sounds like an awesome build! My bike is an early build from IF and also built by Lloyd and the gang. I've got a Yeti CX rig as well that I used to race due to weight. My road bike ironically is a Moots Compact built in the early 2010s. My hardtail is a Seven Sola that needs to be sold and replaced with a full suspension rig, I just hate selling it which is why it's still in the stable.

[MuffintopMarksman]

It’s always fun to catch those guns who spent as much on a gun as I did on my first two vehicles combined  

 

It all comes back to the fundamentals and learning to apply them alongside more nuanced skills like footwork.
 

Glad you had a lot of fun! 

[pjb45]

On 2/22/2022 at 6:50 AM, Halen said:

 

I have an IF cyclocross bike that I raced for years and wouldn't sell or trade it. The bike is heavy as hell but I love riding a steel framed rig.

I have a yellow Gary Fisher Mt Bike that weighs almost as much as my Audi.

I still ride it 4-6 times a weeks--on paved multiplaths--I'm a wimp-to CrossFit.  

 

I am now a certified mediocre shooter in the grand senior class.

My SV guns work every time.  The only failure I had was at nationals in UT with an extractor (not a SV extractor) the slowing came apart during the match.  UGH.

 

My dad and I were, quality assurance professionals;

 

his advice was buy the best quality you can afford.

 

I get as much enjoyment shooting my SV guns as other get from shooting their guns.

[ShredderTactical]

I like Glock pistols and I like shooting USPSA.  So, I shoot my Glock 17 Gen4 MOS pistols in CO division.  Funny thing is, I beat many other shooters with high dollar CZ's, Sig's, and other rigs.  Shoot what you like and what you enjoy.  If you stick with it and put in the work, you will see that you can beat others shooting much more expensive guns!

Edited April 4, 2022 by ShredderTactical
Correction to add missing words.

[waktasz]

Why is that funny? That's what everyone has been saying the whole time

[motosapiens]

On 3/4/2021 at 10:20 PM, ltdmstr said:

Nice bikes are like nice guns.  They just work better and are more fun to use.  And they don't break constantly when you beat on them.  My other bike is a Moots Psychlo-X.  Converted to 1x11 last year and it's awesome.

Zombie post lives!!!

 

Your analogy is very accurate, and in both guns and bikes, there is a difference between nice reliable gear, and fancy expensive bling that doesn't actually hold up. I managed a shop and raced extensively in the 90's, and I saw plenty of each.

Edited April 5, 2022 by motosapiens

[Scrounger]

There’s a local who shoots GM steel with a lever 22 and another who crushes CO with a Glock 26. That’s pure skill. I think most are impressive more by them, than wins with high end rigs. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Scrounger

[N7VY]

Nil’s Jonasson won the 2022 Limited/Open Nationals last week. He shoots his Canik and he shot MINOR! MINOR! Definitely is the shooter and maybe a little bit the gun

[Johnny_Chimpo]

In before the let 2011s in CO crowd......

[sfinney]

If a nice expensive fancy name made custom gun makes you happy, and gives you confidence, it probably DOES increase your ability at some %. If bling is your thing, it can sure make you happy...... 

 

On the other hand - if you just want to compete and not collect: If your gun is reliable, can hit a paper plate at 25yds, and fits you - shoot it and have fun. Put all the extra money in a good class or two from a GM, and ammo. You'll be fine if you put the time in. More likely better.

 

Whatever floats your boat.

[mizer67]

Given the comparison to bike racing, I'll add a comment.

 

I have two bikes, one that's completely serviceable but older, one with the latest gadgets and aerodynamic improvements.

 

If I go out for my regular weekend ride, the newest, high-end bike is about 6 min faster per three hour ride, or ~3.3%. For me, I broke all my PRs on the newer bike. There's no denying there's a (very slight, depending on your point of view) difference in performance, even though my energy expended (measured in watts) didn't change at all.

 

While I might be faster, any pro. could probably destroy me riding a 70 year old Schwinn tricycle. It's not really about the bike (or gun), but any edge is still an edge, however slight.

[waktasz]

Which one do you like riding more? When you look in the shed (or gun safe) does seeing the fancy gun or bike make you want to go out and practice? 
THAT is what makes nice things worth it. (for me at least)

[Jschreiber]

They will always give amateur shooters a little leg up.  Experienced shooters huge leg!

[PA_USPSA]

I shot my first season of USPSA last year using my Sig Sauer P365 and factory ammo (PF 147).  The best split times I could do was 0.8 seconds, but I learned the rules and trigger discipline.  I also learned what other people were shooting in Production.  For this upcoming season I purchased a CZ Accushadow 2 and I'm using ammo with a 135 PF.  I can easily do split times less than 0.5 seconds with better accuracy using the Accushadow 2.  The Accushadow 2 won't make me win, but I do expect to perform better than last year.  My goal is a 30% decrease in time while maintaining the same accuracy.  We'll see how I do.

[Dicktater_Pete]

On 10/13/2019 at 9:45 PM, rock751 said:

What my title says isn't really a new thing. Most people know that its not the gun that makes people a better shooter. I just shot my 2nd USPSA match this weekend using my stock Glock 34 in Limited. I'm only shooting Limited because I only have 2 mag carriers.  Out  of 18 other people shooting limited I got 5th place with my minor  power factor Glock and I'm really happy with that. 

 

I'm very guilty of going on social media and almost drooling over my favorite shooters and their much nicer guns. I always tell myself that I should get one someday. But at both of my matches when I was shooting against people with "better" guns than me I knew that their is no reason to get something nicer because I'm not even close to out shooting my Glock. It almost the only time that I haven't wanted something nicer LOL. All of the mistakes were because of me and I would have shot exactly the same with a different gun. 

 

With all of that said I think I crushed it my second match. My first one I took it easy and slow. This one I pushed just a little and I think it paid off. I also took my buddy to his first match and we  both had a blast. 

That's it, I'm getting a Glock 42 and winning all the competitions in every class.  Might even have it ceracoated

[WestPat]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:48 AM, hurley326 said:

As you said, no one is buying a new expensive gun because they think they will shoot better. We buy fancy guns because that is what makes us happy. Not saying your trying to talk anyone out of that but I do see it often.

It’s the same as any hobby with wanting the next newest or coolest thing, and there is nothing wrong with it. I think this mindset should bc encouraged rather than discouraged. Get what makes you happy. It’s how we push manufacturers to develop the next coolest thing. If we all kept buying glocks imagine how boring that would be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

100%  I bought a Millenium Customs 2011 because it is an amazing pistol, not because I thought it would win matches for me. I am a gun collector first and now a competitor distant second. Now that I have started competing though, I realize that the pistol and my shooting are acceptable, it’s my movement, planning, and efficiency that need all the work.  This game is hard, no matter what you bring!

Edited March 14, 2023 by WestPat

[DeepFried]

There may be some value in folks buying new toys and that motivating them to get out and participate. I’ve seen this happen to a number of times where people get excited about the sport and the new gear keeps them coming back.

[GunBugBit]

Just shoot well enough with your expensive gun to avoid the “nice gun, consider learning how to shoot it” comments.