Nice guns dont make better shooters

[Siberian]

On 10/25/2019 at 6:09 PM, Intheshaw1 said:

I think there is a minimum quality that those don't hit. 

 

I would think Glock, M&P, etc would be on the minimum quality side and accessories side of thing.

 

I did my Black Badge course (intro course required to get into IPSC in Canada) with a Norinco NP22, a Chinese Sig P226 clone. That thing had 16 pound DA trigger. I finished the first match second last, and with a bloody blister on the trigger finger

 

Got a CZ very soon afterwards.

[nikdanja]

This is very true but the reason why I got my sweet 2011 is this. 
1. Now I have zero excuse that I can tell myself why I suck because my gear is top notch. 
2. Instead of buying and selling guns at a loss to constantly upgrade, just buy once and cry once. 

[toothandnail]

I saw an immediate improvement when I switched from a Glock - with nearly every upgrade available.  AND I was the die-hard, "it's the shooter not the gun" guy . I shot a Glock for years.
My son got my 2011 finished about 6pm the night before a major, I took it out to test it, shot 2 mags, never looked back.
grip angle, trigger, weight, just worked together better for me.
 

BUT - keep shooting your Glock it won't slow you down for a while, maybe never.
 

[Cliveb]

Absolutely true that a more expensive gun won't give the proportional improvement in results.

I started with a Glock 35, then went to an STI Edge and now shoot a 2011 custom gun - did my scores climb by as much as I spent? Nope, but the difference was still measurable and, more importantly, shooting my custom 2011 feels like shaking God's hand and puts a big smile on my face.

Worth it for the scores? No. Worth it for the warm, fuzzy feeling inside? Hell, yes! 

[IronicTwitch]

Buy a nice custom gun.  You'll hold it while you watch tv.  You'll probably dry fire it more often.  Maybe even productive dry fire sessions.  Then you might get better.  Even if you don't, you'll still have a nice custom gun!

[hurley326]

A new gun just makes you feel good! Just received this Honcho a few days ago.

 

 

[MadBomber]

Life is too short to shoot cheap guns!

[tbarker13]

I've always disliked that "Indian/Arrow" analogy.

Pick two Indians with the same skill set. Give one of them a set of crappy arrows, and he won't do as well as the other guy.

It's the Indian and the arrow.

Of course, dropping $2k-3k on a new gun won't make you jump from C class to A class. It's not that simple

But there are decided advantages to be had in upgrading guns. For many shooters, a heavier gun is going to be a bonus. With some guns (1911s for example), you might pay more for increased reliability - which can translate to better match scores.

That said, for some people - a Glock might be all they need. Bob Vogel has certainly done well with the platform.

 

And there are a lot of bad shooters running around with expensive rigs. Beating them with a Glock doesn't mean expensive guns have no value.

 

 

 

 

 

[nikdanja]

On 11/5/2019 at 11:06 PM, tbarker13 said:

I've always disliked that "Indian/Arrow" analogy.

Pick two Indians with the same skill set. Give one of them a set of crappy arrows, and he won't do as well as the other guy.

It's the Indian and the arrow.

Of course, dropping $2k-3k on a new gun won't make you jump from C class to A class. It's not that simple

But there are decided advantages to be had in upgrading guns. For many shooters, a heavier gun is going to be a bonus. With some guns (1911s for example), you might pay more for increased reliability - which can translate to better match scores.

That said, for some people - a Glock might be all they need. Bob Vogel has certainly done well with the platform.

 

And there are a lot of bad shooters running around with expensive rigs. Beating them with a Glock doesn't mean expensive guns have no value.

 

 

 

 

 

Shane coley cleans up in limited and he shoots a “Glock” 

[GunBugBit]

Glocks are VERY shootable and I see guys do very well with them.

 

I have used a Glock for Limited, and have "cleaned up" at a very low level (club practice matches).   When a good 2011 shooter (A class or above) is around, I am put in my place, but it's more the shooter that's beating me than the gun.   I was tickled when I first experienced how trouble free and easy to shoot mine is in competition.  I use relatively inexpensive Magpul mags with +5 extensions; they are ultra reliable.

[920webb]

I started with a factory gun . Then I got a custom built limited . The custom built is a lot more fun to shoot .  

[bimmer1980]

I have to say, after shooting an open major sig, i lost a bit of respect... 

 

It was almost like videogaming with a .22, but louder

[07yzryder]

I like my Glock 35. It shoots better then i do. I will eventually move to open and get a nice gun. In the mean time, time/money can be better suited to dry fire and range days. Draw speed, transitions, getting in and out of shooting positions, getting the gun up faster, stage planning.

 

new gun wont help with alot of that.

[Igloodude]

On 11/5/2019 at 11:06 PM, tbarker13 said:

...

But there are decided advantages to be had in upgrading guns. For many shooters, a heavier gun is going to be a bonus. With some guns (1911s for example), you might pay more for increased reliability - which can translate to better match scores.

...

 

Exactly this. My current 1911 has had some sort of "mechanical challenge" almost every match. So I'm paying more (a lot more, admittedly) for a custom 1911. The bonus is, it'll be a gun I can be competitive with in virtually every shooting discipline that allows 1911 pistols at all: USPSA, Steel, IDPA, Bullseye, Bowling Pin, and... what other ones are there?

[matteekay]

The answer is simple: shoot revolver. You get to spend a lot of money on a gun, a lot of money on gear, a lot of time tuning everything so it all runs, and still get to finish low in overall standings. It truly is Voltaire's "best of all possible worlds."

 

 

[MikeyScuba]

So true.

 

it’s also more work to clean the gun and to separate the brass by headstamp.  However that is a one time deal as you lose very little brass.

[matteekay]

I finally switched to Starline after running the same Federal so many times that it started disintegrating, lol.

[KoolAid]

I am a new shooter to USPSA, 4 matches in, and my biggest issue with wanting to get a new toy is because I want to shoot major. I really like my red dot for my carry optics gun, so open seems like the best bet to get that same vibe while shooting major. So it looks like a 2-3k gun is in the future for me? I would love to not have to spend that much, but I don't see too many options that are not custom. So for me, I am not trying to buy ability, I am trying to get into a different PF.

[Nolan]

On 11/9/2019 at 12:12 AM, bimmer1980 said:

I have to say, after shooting an open major sig, i lost a bit of respect... 

 

It was almost like videogaming with a .22, but louder

 

LOL!  Say that after you're able to shoot a 32 round field course in under 11 seconds.

 

 

Nolan

[bimmer1980]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:33 AM, Nolan said:

 

LOL!  Say that after you're able to shoot a 32 round field course in under 11 seconds.

 

 

Nolan

Sorry, no offence.

It´s true that it´s about pure speed in open and that it issn´t an easy task. One mistake (even mental) and you´r out.

 

But the guns are super easy to shoot. It´s almost a different game.  

[DD78]

I have a pretty simple philosophy.

Buy the best you can afford once you decide you’re going to stick with it.

This way when you shoot terribly, you have no one to blame but yourself lol.

I’m big on eliminating variables. If I’m using reliable, top of the line equipment, I have no excuses for performing poorly.

[HesedTech]

Nice guns are part of the hobby. 
 

Cool gear is part of the hobby. 
 

The reality is people tend to shoot at the same levels no matter what gun or division they choose. 
 

Of course if you’re competing with a 12 lb trigger, mags that won’t drop, and a holster with retention it will be more difficult. 

[Brooke]

On 12/12/2019 at 1:26 AM, DD78 said:

I have a pretty simple philosophy.

Buy the best you can afford once you decide you’re going to stick with it.

This way when you shoot terribly, you have no one to blame but yourself lol.

I’m big on eliminating variables. If I’m using reliable, top of the line equipment, I have no excuses for performing poorly.

 

If you don't think some of the expensive custom guns are better then you have not shot one. There are definitely people so good that they don't need them to win, but they help. You only live once. 

 

I had hand made graphite rods for bass fishing too. Did I catch more bass. I doubt it but I loved the rods. 

 

I guess I don't believe in knocking people who want and can afford expensive toys. Expensive toys are fun. My job on earth is fun.

[DD78]

6 hours ago, Brooke said:

 

If you don't think some of the expensive custom guns are better then you have not shot one. There are definitely people so good that they don't need them to win, but they help. You only live once. 

 

I had hand made graphite rods for bass fishing too. Did I catch more bass. I doubt it but I loved the rods. 

 

I guess I don't believe in knocking people who want and can afford expensive toys. Expensive toys are fun. My job on earth is fun.

You may want to read what I wrote again because your response to my comment literally doesn't make any sort of sense.  

 

The two main handguns I compete with cost me around 8K after additional modification and tweaking, mainly on one of the two.  Between them I have 22 2011 mags.  That's almost 3K in mags alone.  My investment in what I need for handguns alone for 3 gun and USPSA is around 11K.  I'm planning on spending another $3500-4000 for a backup gun for USPSA even though my current one is extremely reliable.  

 

Where in my comment did you see me knocking anyone?  My point was EXTREMELY clear....

 

Buy the best you can afford, and when you don't perform well, you can't blame it on the gear.  If I'm knocking anyone, it's the people who shoot poorly and blame the gun rather than themselves.  

 

Eliminate the variables so that you know whether the problem is you, or the equipment.  for the 15 years I played golf regularly and for big money, I played the best equipment I could afford, which also was the best equipment that was available.  If I tried a club that was significantly better, I'd buy it.  When I first started I had cheaper equipment.  I constantly blamed the equipment until I bought the best equipment available.  Then when I hit a bad shot, it was me that sucked, not the clubs.  

 

If the best I can afford is a Tanfo, even a gun at that price point is going to be vastly more capable than the people shooting them.  A tuned Tanfo is a great gun for the price, and can be made to be extremely reliable with a bit of tuning by someone competent.  You can buy 3 Tanfo's for the price of a custom 2011.  

 

I can afford custom 2011s.  If you noticed, what my comment didn't say was "you should just buy a custom 2011 and shoot that".  If you can afford it, sure why not.  Most people can't justify spending what I've spent on my guns.  There's nothing wrong with that.  My buddy routinely beats me shooting an XD in limited minor against me with a custom 2011 shooting major.  I know I can't blame the gun.  He just shot faster than me, with the same to slightly better accuracy.  

 

At the very beginning of my post is said that you should only buy the best you can afford once you know that competitive shooting is for you.  I've shot 4 full seasons so far.  At least 35% of the people I used to see at matches with 2011's, I haven't seen for 2 seasons.  I see them around from time to time, but spending money on a 2011 and you decide shooting is not for you seems like a waste of money.  Shoot a gun you already have in your safe, and if you see yourself continuing to shoot competitively, then invest in the best you can afford.  

 

Perhaps you wrote in a way that didn't convey what your actual point was, but it doesn't seem that way.  Seems you quoted me, and then argued against points I didn't make.  

[Sarge]

4 hours ago, DD78 said:

You may want to read what I wrote again because your response to my comment literally doesn't make any sort of sense.  

 

The two main handguns I compete with cost me around 8K after additional modification and tweaking, mainly on one of the two.  Between them I have 22 2011 mags.  That's almost 3K in mags alone.  My investment in what I need for handguns alone for 3 gun and USPSA is around 11K.  I'm planning on spending another $3500-4000 for a backup gun for USPSA even though my current one is extremely reliable.  

 

Where in my comment did you see me knocking anyone?  My point was EXTREMELY clear....

 

Buy the best you can afford, and when you don't perform well, you can't blame it on the gear.  If I'm knocking anyone, it's the people who shoot poorly and blame the gun rather than themselves.  

 

Eliminate the variables so that you know whether the problem is you, or the equipment.  for the 15 years I played golf regularly and for big money, I played the best equipment I could afford, which also was the best equipment that was available.  If I tried a club that was significantly better, I'd buy it.  When I first started I had cheaper equipment.  I constantly blamed the equipment until I bought the best equipment available.  Then when I hit a bad shot, it was me that sucked, not the clubs.  

 

If the best I can afford is a Tanfo, even a gun at that price point is going to be vastly more capable than the people shooting them.  A tuned Tanfo is a great gun for the price, and can be made to be extremely reliable with a bit of tuning by someone competent.  You can buy 3 Tanfo's for the price of a custom 2011.  

 

I can afford custom 2011s.  If you noticed, what my comment didn't say was "you should just buy a custom 2011 and shoot that".  If you can afford it, sure why not.  Most people can't justify spending what I've spent on my guns.  There's nothing wrong with that.  My buddy routinely beats me shooting an XD in limited minor against me with a custom 2011 shooting major.  I know I can't blame the gun.  He just shot faster than me, with the same to slightly better accuracy.  

 

At the very beginning of my post is said that you should only buy the best you can afford once you know that competitive shooting is for you.  I've shot 4 full seasons so far.  At least 35% of the people I used to see at matches with 2011's, I haven't seen for 2 seasons.  I see them around from time to time, but spending money on a 2011 and you decide shooting is not for you seems like a waste of money.  Shoot a gun you already have in your safe, and if you see yourself continuing to shoot competitively, then invest in the best you can afford.  

 

Perhaps you wrote in a way that didn't convey what your actual point was, but it doesn't seem that way.  Seems you quoted me, and then argued against points I didn't make.  

I agree Brooke might have even quoted the wrong person. It doesn’t seem that’s what you said.

  Oh, nobody cares how much money you have in guns, let alone mags.