Can we find a way to save USPSA Revo?

[MikeyScuba]

Up here most production shooters use Cz’s p75 or Shadows.  Those who want bling go tangfolios. A polymer gun isn’t common to see.

 

Chris: You need to learn to churn and burn credit cards.  I don’t pay for Marriot’s, well sort off.  With the fee credit cards + bonus’s I’m basically getting 80% of my hotel stays.  I do better with flying as the Aeroplan offers are now back but “taxes” on awards tickets adds up. 

[1911Prof]

I'm not sure that I buy the additional expense of an optic as being a deterrent either, it seems pretty clear that the people who want to shoot revolver are not in it because they are in the go fast or go cheap crowd.  Competition revolvers are not cheap, people who want to shoot them know that going in.  I was on the fence, but I am becoming a fan of the revolver optics thing, the increase in cost is fairly small compared to the ammunition costs and optics are available and fun.  More to the point, most revolver shooters I'm around are getting old and our vision is getting old such iron sights are becoming less fun.

[Gomar83]

I know I have at least $2k in each of my 6” Eagles, so why I’m getting at is I just bought a new S&W 625JM  for $750. So if I take the $750 plus a $650 for T&K auction package equals $1400. I would say this revolver is cheaper to do then my STI’s. To a degree cost of a gun to compete with is what you make it, and I don’t see it as a reason to not shoot a division. I will soon take on learning the skill set to shoot revolver, and I see this as a hurdle to hold some people back and away from this division. 

Just my thoughts 

[LifeisgoodSteve]

4 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Want to make revolver division bigger, you need to make the most common revolvers and gear already out there competitive.
6 shots max,, all scored minor, no moonclips, 

There's something to be said to have some form of competitive class for the common revolvers.  However, moonclips are sooo nice that I really wouldn't want to give it up for competition.  Maybe someone mentioned it already, but is there a greater equalizer of a 6 shot in Major to compete with the 8 shot minors?

 

I was getting started in the competitions and was often the only 1 or maybe 1 of 2 revo shooters.  Always fun, but did get a bit old.  The one time I had 2 other revos in my group made it so much more fun.  Nowadays I hardly go out, so would welcome energy put into Revo in USPSA.

[J_Allen]

I started two years ago in USPSA, specifically shooting revolver. I definitely don’t have the experience that others (pretty much everybody) have on this forum.

 

I started shooting a 44 magnum I had, using speed loaders and 44 Russian hand loads. Within that first year I picked up a 625. Why I didn’t go 8 shot you ask? Well, I did know about this forum, but only just barely, and there were no other local revolver shooters to help me out. So that got me through the first year, but I was always the only revolver shooter at my local club. I tried to convince one other guy to shoot his wheel gun (as he had in the past), but I was most likely not enough competition for him. The state sectional that year did have another higher class shooter with 8 shot minor, but we weren’t in the same squad and I never met him.

 

So then started second year with same equipment (6 shot major), but switched over to production so I could compete with my friends. I picked up a 627 and had a load ready by the end of the year (thanks to some good advice on a starting point from the guy I bought it from), and did manage to shoot one sectional with it (not my own since I was shooting Production for that one). I did terribly, but wasn’t surprised since I really need to dryfire (but don’t). However, there were a few other revolver shooters, and even though I wasn’t squaded with any of them, it was a lot more fun to do the data analysis on PractiScore after the match.

 

So now this year I think I am going to try Limited, with the intent of going back to Revolver next year. But, if there were more competition, I would gladly roll back to Revolver in a heartbeat. I am signed up for one bigger level 3 match, just for fun. If there are a couple of Revolver shooters that end up competing, I would be so tempted to switch divisions, even if I am the sacrificial lamb (someone has to get last).

[Racinready300ex]

14 hours ago, revoman said:

627 pro $750 optic mount $100 used Cmore $150 your own tuning on the trigger $50. There you have an open revolver for $1050. Moon clips are a one time cost only and so is the brass as you always get it back. Moon clips range from $3 to $8 apiece. You will be shooting minor so the need for a comp is irrelevant and the 4” barrel is all you would need. 

What limited set up is going to cost less than this?

Overall is a fantasy that everyone dreams of and if that is important get a PCC. Whatever I shoot with that is the only people I care about competing against. 

 

Trigger is going to cost you more than $50 unless you do it yourself. You'll spend more then $50 just in shipping it to a good smith. You'll also need the cyl chamfered. Looking for a example you can send your gun to TJ customs and spend 300-500 getting it competition ready. We both know you really should get the good moon's but they're pricey. Short colt, or long colt brass is pricey. It's nice to get it all back but it you want to load up 5-6k rounds at a time you need to make the investment up front. You're certainly not buying ammo at walmart. 

 

You can buy a CZ or a Tanfo for about a grand and mags are cheaper than moon clips. You can buy a plastic production gun for a lot less. The fancy production guns will set you back about  a grand. Maybe 1,500 to 2k you can get a used 2011 for limited. A CO equipped 320 should cost you less.  

 

All that to be the only guy at your club shooting a revolver. You'll likely have to work harder just to finish middle of the pack. Or spend similar or even potentially less money, finish better with less work and have local people to compete against. I personally don't want to travel 4 hours to our Area match once a year at $185 entry fee just so I can shoot against the other 3 guys that shoot revolver. I'll see more guys in a match 30 min away every month shooting limited, and at that same Area match there will be 100+ Limited shooters.

 

I don't think there is any way to really save Revo. Our area saw a little boost after the 8 shot deal, but that seems to of dropped back off.

[Racinready300ex]

9 hours ago, Gomar83 said:

I know I have at least $2k in each of my 6” Eagles, so why I’m getting at is I just bought a new S&W 625JM  for $750. So if I take the $750 plus a $650 for T&K auction package equals $1400. I would say this revolver is cheaper to do then my STI’s. To a degree cost of a gun to compete with is what you make it, and I don’t see it as a reason to not shoot a division. I will soon take on learning the skill set to shoot revolver, and I see this as a hurdle to hold some people back and away from this division. 

Just my thoughts 

 

Good luck with that 625, those died in uspsa when 8 shot became a thing.

[PatJones]

 
Good luck with that 625, those died in uspsa when 8 shot became a thing.

Shoot mine as much as I do my 627. Given the small number of participants at a level 1, it rarely matters what you shoot.

[ZackJones]

16 hours ago, GMM50 said:

I Believe the Revolver shooters should be making the rules for the matches.   ICORE, USPSA, Steel Challenge and what ever else.

If that fails we only have us to blame and nobody else cares anyway.

 

You don't think they do? For Steel Challenge at least more than one of us involved with the rules either shoot or have shot revolvers.

[Racinready300ex]

12 minutes ago, PatJones said:

22 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 
Good luck with that 625, those died in uspsa when 8 shot became a thing.

Shoot mine as much as I do my 627. Given the small number of participants at a level 1, it rarely matters what you shoot.

 

That true.

 

When I started shooting USPSA I came from IDPA. So I was shooting 6 shot minor with speed loaders. Still managed to be the fastest revolver at local matches.

[Gomar83]

 

51 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Good luck with that 625, those died in uspsa when 8 shot became a thing.

I’m doing this to have fun. I’m not the best shot and nor will I ever claim to be. So as long as I can have fun, shoot with fun people, and meet new competitors. That and my son can learn on it at my range at home. In time I will get a 627 and a 610. It’s all fun.

[Tophernj]

1 hour ago, Gomar83 said:

 

I’m doing this to have fun. I’m not the best shot and nor will I ever claim to be. So as long as I can have fun, shoot with fun people, and meet new competitors. That and my son can learn on it at my range at home. In time I will get a 627 and a 610. It’s all fun.

Exactly how I feel. I finished 3rd from the bottom at the last match I shot and I’m thrilled. 

[Racinready300ex]

4 hours ago, Gomar83 said:

 

I’m doing this to have fun. I’m not the best shot and nor will I ever claim to be. So as long as I can have fun, shoot with fun people, and meet new competitors. That and my son can learn on it at my range at home. In time I will get a 627 and a 610. It’s all fun.

 

Do you have any IDPA in your area? I think the 625 is still the best option for IDPA Revolver.

[Gomar83]

Not that I know off. Last I knew Blackhawk dropped IDPA last year due to little to no participation.

[1911Prof]

It seems to me that revolver is always going to be small, made up of people who are going to spend a lot of money for equipment that is inherently slower (largely due to reloads) and more difficult to shoot.  It seems wrong to make the 625 and other 6 round guns obsolete in USPSA, since that makes up a large section of the guns out there.  Maybe we could split into classic (6 round major) and open 8 round with optics (major or minor).  This means all those 6 round guns would have a home in USPSA and the high capacity 8 rounders would run with optics

[BadShot]

3 hours ago, Gomar83 said:

Not that I know off. Last I knew Blackhawk dropped IDPA last year due to little to no participation.

Gomar,

 

Ankeny Ikes has IDPA  2 Thursdays and 1 Saturday each month.  It's a long drive for Thursdays....

[Mcfoto]

1 hour ago, 1911Prof said:

It seems to me that revolver is always going to be small, made up of people who are going to spend a lot of money for equipment that is inherently slower (largely due to reloads) and more difficult to shoot.  It seems wrong to make the 625 and other 6 round guns obsolete in USPSA, since that makes up a large section of the guns out there.  Maybe we could split into classic (6 round major) and open 8 round with optics (major or minor).  This means all those 6 round guns would have a home in USPSA and the high capacity 8 rounders would run with optics

 

Yeah, because changing the rules just as I've invested around $2k in gear is going to keep me in revolver...

[RJH]

41 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

 

Yeah, because changing the rules just as I've invested around $2k in gear is going to keep me in revolver...

 

Yep, i think going to 8 minor hurt revolver instead of helped it.  Always foolish to obsolete everyone's gun.  But also i think going to 8 round neutral hurt revolver.  To be honest i don't think USPSA cares a lot about the 20 or so dedicated revolver shooters around the country. As a business they probably shouldn't , but as a shooting sport they probably should

Edited March 6, 2019 by RJH

[AzShooter]

I knew when Charlie Prest came up with the 8 round revolver that it would forever change revolver shooting and create an equipment race.  I first  saw it at the IRC when Jerry shot his Bauman 7 shot.  You could see the righting on the wall and a few others bought the Bauman to keep up...Not like Jerry had anyone coming close.

 

For ICORE, as a separate category it works fine.  You only compete with like equipment.  But for USPSA I think it really hurt us.  I would have rather they let optics in the USPSA.

[rowdyb]

1. Get your local club to do a specialty Revo/SS only match once or even twice a year. Or add it during a 5th Saturday or Sunday.  But make it something different and absolutely do not allow anything other than Revo and SS. Buddies egging on their other buddies is a powerful thing, I've seen it at locals.

 

2. At area and section matches allow Revo division shooters to shoot for 1/2 price. Or heck, free. Money talks, make big matches cheaper for that division. (which brings up the idea of match fees being on a sliding scale in relation to the number of shooters in a division.....) If you were looking at $250 to shoot a popular division or $75 to shoot an unpopular one, you just know people will do it off of price alone.

 

3. I agree, do not allow any new equipment changes.

 

ps-I shot a revo at 2 local icore matches, 2 idpa matches and half a uspsa match so 4.5 matches with one in as many years. And then I sold that revo. I didn;t enjoy it as it was too far different from shooting a semi auto.

Edited March 6, 2019 by rowdyb

[Tophernj]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

1. Get your local club to do a specialty Revo/SS only match once or even twice a year. Or add it during a 5th Saturday or Sunday.  But make it something different and absolutely do not allow anything other than Revo and SS. Buddies egging on their other buddies is a powerful thing, I've seen it at locals.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  I will be talking to the one guy at a local club that I know and who runs the matches.  I really like the 5th sunday thing.  

Great suggestion.  Thanks.

 

ETA: I would probably try and work it out as an "outlaw" revolver shoot.  Something fun that could wind up being relatively fast paced and would encourage participation.  Static steel with a couple of knockdown plates thrown in is what I'm thinking.  

Maybe:

Centerfire only.  No major/minor

Production speedloader

Production moonclip

     No outside mods to the pistol aside from grips/sights.  No comps.  

 

Open 

     Anything goes

 

Thoughts from those with more experience would be wonderful.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Tophernj

[RJH]

1 hour ago, Tophernj said:

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  I will be talking to the one guy at a local club that I know and who runs the matches.  I really like the 5th sunday thing.  

Great suggestion.  Thanks.

 

ETA: I would probably try and work it out as an "outlaw" revolver shoot.  Something fun that could wind up being relatively fast paced and would encourage participation.  Static steel with a couple of knockdown plates thrown in is what I'm thinking.  

Maybe:

Centerfire only.  No major/minor

Production speedloader

Production moonclip

     No outside mods to the pistol aside from grips/sights.  No comps.  

 

Open 

     Anything goes

 

Thoughts from those with more experience would be wonderful.

 

Too technical on the divisions.  just go, speedloader, moons, open.  I would add in major minor, but wouldn't be a deal breaker

[pskys2]

On 3/5/2019 at 5:21 PM, Mcfoto said:

 

Can you send a link to who’s selling at this price? New-I haven’t found them for less than $1100, used-around $850.

Don't know about $750 but the Pro is the 4" version and lists for $990.  I've seen them for less though.

[Mcfoto]

2 hours ago, Tophernj said:

Production speedloader

Production moonclip

     No outside mods to the pistol aside from grips/sights.  No comps.  

 

What about extended cylinder release? That’s a fairly common external mod.

[Tophernj]

6 hours ago, RJH said:

 

Too technical on the divisions.  just go, speedloader, moons, open.  I would add in major minor, but wouldn't be a deal breaker

Thanks.  I'm just spitballing here.

5 hours ago, Mcfoto said:

 

What about extended cylinder release? That’s a fairly common external mod.

I don't know.  My initial reaction is to put that in an open class.