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Can we find a way to save USPSA Revo?


Carmoney

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I think you would want to keep extended cylinder releases in moons and open divisions, but maybe keep the speedloader division more stock. Note that I am just wishlisting here, and am specifically not advocating for further dividing up the revolver division. While I would personally like it, I don’t honestly believe it would increase participation.

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7 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Don't know about $750 but the Pro is the 4" version and lists for $990.  I've seen them for less though.

It’s all in who you know and how much they like you in order for them to sell a gun at cost?

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52 minutes ago, J_Allen said:

I think you would want to keep extended cylinder releases in moons and open divisions, but maybe keep the speedloader division more stock. Note that I am just wishlisting here, and am specifically not advocating for further dividing up the revolver division. While I would personally like it, I don’t honestly believe it would increase participation.

That's how I feel as well.

And this is for a match that I'm dreaming up anyway.  A local club "outlaw" style match.

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2 hours ago, Tophernj said:

 

I don't know.  My initial reaction is to put that in an open class.  

 

Common mods like this is why it is better to not get  too worried about divisions, and lump guns only by major advantages.  Like Moons are easy to see and anyone who has reloaded a revolver knows they are a huge advantage.  I know  a few people can hit reloads almost as quick with speedloaders, but even the best wont be as consistent overall because of the occasional brass hangup etc.and with most people it ain't really even close

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Yep, at your speciality local match just make it simple the first time and get competitor input after it's over. SS/Revo. Two divisions. Let people self report maj/minor just like we do now at locals.

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There isn't going to ever be a split of revo divison, ever.  Open it up for everyone optics and all.

 

For the 6 shooters and speedloaders, even in ICORE that is the smallest division of a small discipline.  I can appreciate it and I help collect brass/loaders but I find it painful to watch.  My wife has a 686 and she cut it for moons.  But it sits unused, alone and ignored in the safe.  She went to optics.  Limited 6 optics lol.

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4 hours ago, Gomar83 said:
11 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Don't know about $750 but the Pro is the 4" version and lists for $990.  I've seen them for less though.

It’s all in who you know and how much they like you in order for them to sell a gun at cost?

There are 5 right now that can be bought from $749 to $792. It all depends where you look. 😁

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7 hours ago, Tophernj said:

Thanks.  I'm just spitballing here.

I don't know.  My initial reaction is to put that in an open class.  

This is where I have gotten as well.  Since ICORE has already solved this problem with their three divisions, I think we ought to recognize those divisions in USPSA.  That means that classic revolvers will be recognized for what they are actually shooting, and people can shoot their open revolver without being categorized as USPSA open division.  As a bonus I would get to see the open revolver shooters kicking people’s asses

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54 minutes ago, 1911Prof said:

This is where I have gotten as well.  Since ICORE has already solved this problem with their three divisions, I think we ought to recognize those divisions in USPSA.  That means that classic revolvers will be recognized for what they are actually shooting, and people can shoot their open revolver without being categorized as USPSA open division.  As a bonus I would get to see the open revolver shooters kicking people’s asses

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this idea.

 

Are you suggesting we split revolver division into 3 separate even smaller divisions? so Open Revo, Limited Revo, Classic Revo

or

Are you suggesting make an optics and comps Open division and then having something more like category recognition for Limited and Classic configurations?

 

Either option has some issues in my opinion. 

The first one splits up the smallest by far USPSA division and I highly doubt adds more than a couple new shooters. (lets face it sjhooting a classic 6 shot speed loader revo in a USPSA match take a special kind of person that is likely already shooting a revo in USPSA, anyone concerned enough about how they finish to not shoot a 6 shooter at a match are also probably not going to want to be first of 1 in revo classic as opposed to first of 1 in revo as it is, open revo may tempt a shooter or two to play occasional but with Open and CO most will probably stay their for their optics needs.

 

The second option is better but still bad, it makes revo into open revo once again makeing the few of us that shoot a revo upgrade our gear to be competitive, outside of a very large stand alone match having enough revos show up in another configuration to get some sort of category recognition is super unlikely. 

 

My personal opinion is shooting a revo is hard enough on its own to stop most shooters from trying. its not a cost thing its not a division equipment thing its a its hard thing. So unless hard is their thing recruitment will be hard period.

 

 

 

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I would have thought someone to be nuts to shoot a six-banger in USPSA until last month. My squad had a guy shooting revolver major in a very non-lowcap friendly match. At times, it was almost painful to watch but he did a lot better than me! He had the advantage of moons and major scoring which the latter isn't a factor in ICORE and the former would have put him in limited. I still think it would be crazy to show up to USPSA with a "Classic" revo set up (speedloaders and minor), but there are many out there with bigger cahones than me.

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48 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

My personal opinion is shooting a revo is hard enough on its own to stop most shooters from trying. its not a cost thing its not a division equipment thing its a its hard thing. So unless hard is their thing recruitment will be hard period.

 

 

I think cost has some influence, but the biggest thing is likely that people just don't want to finish last. The division is slow, even a GM wheel gunner is going to be mid pack at a lot of club matches. It's not really harder, it just test different skills. Accuracy is premium becasue the HF is low, due to slow reloads, scoring minor and you don't have any extra's for make up shots.

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1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said:

no USPSA revolver is like ICORE Limited. (oddly I believe the largest ICORE division)

 

 

Not what I meant.

 

Think more, Red-headed step children. 

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28 minutes ago, alecmc said:

 

 

Not what I meant.

 

Think more, Red-headed step children. 

 

Ironic given Classic gear is what I first showed up to ICORE with thinking "I have a revolver, I'll try that game." Soon, I realized that if I was going to "play," I needed a *competition* revolver which put me into Limited... I know I'm not alone as I note this happens with the newbs behind me.

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1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think cost has some influence, but the biggest thing is likely that people just don't want to finish last. The division is slow, even a GM wheel gunner is going to be mid pack at a lot of club matches. It's not really harder, it just test different skills. Accuracy is premium becasue the HF is low, due to slow reloads, scoring minor and you don't have any extra's for make up shots.

I guess what i meant by cost not being a issue is, even if you could be competetive in some new division with a 6 shot speed loader gun you may all ready own I don't think many would see that as enough enticement to go buy 6-8 speed loaders and holders and a decent holster just to shoot what would now be by far the slowest division.

 

I agree its not "harder" to shoot a revo but the general belief among shooters is that it is harder, and unfortunately beliefs trump facts.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, alecmc said:

 

Even revolver shooters think revo classic shooters are weird.

 

It should be noted that someone on this thread (I'm not naming names but it rhymes with "Ike Purgess"), won a match shooting Classic and hoopdie home-made speedload holders...

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I used to know a guy who shot revolver optics and would get bumped to open, and when I asked him he would say he honestly didn’t give a s#!t where he was put, he was just shooting for fun, I didn’t understand that at the time but I get it now.  The problem is that when we get to that point you aren’t actually shooting USPSA, you are just using their targets to play your own game. 

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16 minutes ago, alecmc said:

 

Even revolver shooters think revo classic shooters are weird.

Yes, and this Mike got what u meant in your other post.

 

so of you need to realize that uspsa isn’t going to create divisions for 1or 2 shooters.

 

i’m still not understanding the revo is harder, at least from my experience.  When I had a problem at a match with my 929 and it was usually fixed in one range session.  Took me a year to shoot my limited sti at the same level of skill.

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2 hours ago, 1911Prof said:

I used to know a guy who shot revolver optics and would get bumped to open, and when I asked him he would say he honestly didn’t give a s#!t where he was put, he was just shooting for fun, I didn’t understand that at the time but I get it now.  The problem is that when we get to that point you aren’t actually shooting USPSA, you are just using their targets to play your own game. 

This is what I do to practice for ICORE. When it is getting close to an ICORE regional or the IRC at the USPSA match I only shoot head shots. Gets me in the zone for the X and A on the ICORE targets. 😉

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2 hours ago, 1911Prof said:

 The problem is that when we get to that point you aren’t actually shooting USPSA, you are just using their targets to play your own game. 

How is that a problem?

I actually think that is one of the best parts of USPSA, solve the problems the way that suits your desires best. 

We have a local shooter that is a high level defensive shooting instructor and takes his craft seriously, he shoots Limited minor with a duplicate of his carry gun and holster from concealment reloads and all, he is very good and would make GM with a race rig but shoots high Master with a carry rig. 

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3 hours ago, 1911Prof said:

The problem is that when we get to that point you aren’t actually shooting USPSA, you are just using their targets to play your own game. 

 

I personally think that that's one of the best things said so far.  

Listen, I get getting serious about competing.  I really do.  However...  This really is just a fun game for me.  I DO NOT make a living at shooting (or guns in general).  I shoot and compete to have a good time.  And that's exactly how I will continue to carry on.  

I shoot a 625JM with 185's moving pretty slowly and other than smoothing out the action, that's it.  I bobbed the hammer, changed some springs and ran the stuff that rubbed on an Arkansas stone a bit.  FWIW, I bobbed the hammer because I grip my revo pretty high.  I completely suck.  BUT, I have a ton of fun.  At the end of a stage, whether I clean it or not, I'm smiling.  I feel better.  I simply enjoy the shooting aspect of it.  I also enjoy the learning.  And meeting up with some friends.  It's just an enjoyable experience.  

My one buddy wants to shoot a BUG match soon.  Just me and him against each other but we'll use the match for the clock.  I mean why not?  We're both there just to have a good time. I mean isn't that the point?  To have a good time?  

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