Anyone playing by the new rules yet, and your thoughts so far?

[Pete Whyte]

I spoke with 3 S.O.s at a match this past Sunday. All 3 said they were not going to take the new test. One said, why should I have to use my ink & paper for a rule book that Hq. should supply. I think it's going to be a cluster ---- in Oct. if a new rule book isn't issued to all members Pete

[v1911]

Maybe it's a principal thing. I don't see it. Why all the fuss over printing up your own rulebook?

With today's technology, you can pull it up on your smartphone or have it stored on your tablet.

Edited August 8, 2013 by v1911

[jmorris]

Otherwise it would be like dropping the speed limit from 55 on the highway to 40 with no warning or grace period.

I couldn't have picked a better analogy if I tried.

[COF]

Why not get used to something that is coming anyway. Otherwise it would be like dropping the speed limit from 55 on the highway to 40 with no warning or grace period.

Say what? The grace period is Jul 1 - Sep 30 for everyone to get familiar with the new rulebook and the SO's to get certified. The new rulebook is not the rulebook until Oct 1. If you're operating under the new rulebook now, you're not in compliance with the current rules. Are the sanctioned matches between now and Sep 30 going to be run under the current rulebook or the new one? They can only be run under the current one so why are folks jumping the gun?

I can see posting major rule changes at the clubs or discussing the rule changes at monthly matches prior to Oct 1, but can't see running the match under a rulebook that is not yet in effect.

[ac4wordplay]

Why not get used to something that is coming anyway. Otherwise it would be like dropping the speed limit from 55 on the highway to 40 with no warning or grace period.

Say what? The grace period is Jul 1 - Sep 30 for everyone to get familiar with the new rulebook and the SO's to get certified. The new rulebook is not the rulebook until Oct 1. If you're operating under the new rulebook now, you're not in compliance with the current rules. Are the sanctioned matches between now and Sep 30 going to be run under the current rulebook or the new one? They can only be run under the current one so why are folks jumping the gun?

I can see posting major rule changes at the clubs or discussing the rule changes at monthly matches prior to Oct 1, but can't see running the match under a rulebook that is not yet in effect.

Well said.

[GmanCdp]

So what will it be creating when you go to a club and 4 or 5 SO's are standing around bragging about all of the PE's they gave out last month.. You will be hearing a lot of the "well I almost, could have, should have, maybe next time,[take your pick] give you the PE" quotes going on.. Shooters need to read and understand the rules if they want to play, but I think IDPA could have, should have done a better job on the test. I know several good SO's that blew it on the test, because they didn't take the time to reread the new RB 2 or 35 times. They are still good SO's and I think IDPA will loose 40% of the current ones.

On the plus side I will still give them some chit and a t-shirt, only because I like them..

[Dacsoft]

Maybe it's a principal thing. I don't see it. Why all the fuss over printing up your own rulebook?

With today's technology, you can pull it up on your smartphone or have it stored on your tablet.

I don't understand the issue either. It is so easy to print or, and if you don't have a good printer take it to local print shop.

I have talked to a couple who said they might not recertify because they can still SO local matches and don't work sanctioned matches. But I also know a couple people waiting for a class so they can be certified.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[19852]

Every game has rules. The "big deal" is this games rules just changed, takes some getting used to for most. I'll adapt and keep shooting.

19852

[Yoder]

I've already heard SO's talking about the new rules. They are volunteers, if we open them up to get sued nobody will do this anymore and it will cripple the sport. Many of the guys who SO the matches are saying they will not do it starting in October. I seen some clubs now require you go through the NRA safety class or shoot a classifier before they will allow you to shoot a match. I'm not real concerned about small changes to the rules of shooting but I think this is a bad idea. It's typical for people to not be held responsible for their own actions, now it will be the SO's fault if some idiot shoots themself.

[Agney5]

The big deal is that a game changes rules to make the game more fun, safer, or clarify current rules. There are some rules that are an improvement, but there are some pretty significant steps backwards. Rules that are actually hurting the sport, and seem to be doing so entirely out of spite of other shooting sports.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

[johes]

Agney5, your last line just stated my biggest peeve with IDPA. Some of the silliest rules in either the old or new rule book exist "so we won't be like _ _ _ _ _," And no, I've never shot that other sport.

Joe A23563

Edited August 16, 2013 by johes

[GOF]

IMHO, the actual 'shooting rule' changes aren't really worth complaining about. It's a game, and games need rules.

The biggest problem, and the one that will keep this 8-year SO from re-certifying, are the 'safety rule' changes. They do place an unwarranted burden of potential liability on SOs and MD's for the actions of others that the SO/MD may not have any real control over. IDPA HQ needs to do a serious "re-think" on those.

Some may think that a preposterous statement... but nothing is preposterous when personal injury lawyers get involved.

I'm quite content to be "just a competitor" again.

[40S&W]

How does one accomplish a reload on the move and be flat footed? Don't you have to be standing still to be flat footed? Does dropping an empty mag with one round in the chamber still get a procedural? I only shoot IDPA as a last resort (when nothing else to shoot in my area), so I just don't understand the new rule. Can someone clearly explain it? Thanks

[Dacsoft]

1- if you run empty in the open, you can reload while moving to cover

2- if you do a reload behind cover, you must do it flat footed and not move until reload is complete.

Short answer, for more information you need the rule book.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4

[jcc7x7]

My understanding is you have to go BACK where you came from to cover. That you can not advance during your emergency reload. I'm not an SO though.

Been wrong before will probably be again!!!!

[Dacsoft]

My understanding is you have to go BACK where you came from to cover. That you can not advance during your emergency reload. I'm not an SO though.

Been wrong before will probably be again!!!!

That was how it is enforced under the current rule book, but is changing October 1st.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4

[TerryT]

Flat footed reloads.... dumbest thing IDPA could do......One more match bump to Master & I'll be moving on to a sport where skill & technique are rewarded not penalized....

Same here.

I was also looking at becoming an SO. Not now. I work in an industry where we see our fair share of personal injury lawyers. This new rule book's treatment of SO safety responsibility is a real problem for the SO and a gift to the PI lawyers.

I may consider it if each person that I SO'd signed a legally binding release and hold harmless. Could come to that.

[Cd662]

TerryT, this is precisely why I don't like helping out at matches. There is too much liability on the staff. I'm amazed matches even happen at all.

[lawboy]

I see Idpa headquarter's plan worked. The wording about SO responsibility has people thinking. Good. Please realize that the wording will have no impact on liability of individual SO's or idpa. A rulebook cannot trump 200 yrs of general liability law. EVERYONE WILL BE SUED. Any lawyer worth his license will sue the SO, idpa, the shooter on deck and the waterboy. Mind you, idpa will be the target all along. Why? BECAUSE IT IS THE DEEP POCKET! So, SO, relax. Do your job. You will be sued under the new rule book just the same as you would get sued under the old rulebook and the parties with the money will sort it out in the end as always. Part of their decision-making will be how to get the testimony they want from witnesses. If I were idpa I would not leave an SO to fend for himself. That SO MAY CALL THE PLAINTFF's lawyer and say what testimony do you need? I AM YOUR GUY JUST DON'T COLLECT FROM ME.

Yes, I am a civil trial lawyer. Yes, I have represented plaintiffs and defendants. Yes, this stuff happens daily.

Edited September 2, 2013 by lawboy

[macgulley]

I wish USPSA and IDPA could settle on one set of range commands to make things easier on those who shoot both.

[jmbaccolyte]

Maybe it's a principal thing. I don't see it. Why all the fuss over printing up your own rulebook?

With today's technology, you can pull it up on your smartphone or have it stored on your tablet.

I don't understand the issue either. It is so easy to print or, and if you don't have a good printer take it to local print shop.

I have talked to a couple who said they might not recertify because they can still SO local matches and don't work sanctioned matches. But I also know a couple people waiting for a class so they can be certified.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Printing out the rule book myself gets me several dozen pages which are held together by a staple. Tossing it in with my range stuff rips up and wears out the pages quickly. Taking it to a good printer who will put a binder on it for durability costs much more than IDPA could sell me a printed version for. I'm not asking that they give to me, just sell me one like the old version of the rule book. I've emailed them twice about this and they didn't bother to reply either time. Secondly I don't have a smartphone or tablet, I'd rather spend the money on something else. I apologize if I sound annoyed and frustrated.

Edited September 21, 2013 by jmbaccolyte

[ac4wordplay]

At the very least, IDPA should send a number of hard copies of the rulebook to each club so that the MD has one and one is on every stage.

Better yet, send a hard copy to each certified SO (in addition to the above).

Best --> send a hard copy to everyone who has paid for current IDPA membership (in addition to all of the above).

[Jim Watson]

I agree, but it is like shouting down a well, no reply.

Some SOs are using the new litany of range commands, some are grumbling instead.

[fastarget]

So what will it be creating when you go to a club and 4 or 5 SO's are standing around bragging about all of the PE's they gave out last month.. You will be hearing a lot of the "well I almost, could have, should have, maybe next time,[take your pick] give you the PE" quotes going on.. Shooters need to read and understand the rules if they want to play, but I think IDPA could have, should have done a better job on the test. I know several good SO's that blew it on the test, because they didn't take the time to reread the new RB 2 or 35 times. They are still good SO's and I think IDPA will loose 40% of the current ones.

On the plus side I will still give them some chit and a t-shirt, only because I like them..

+1. Yes taking the test before reading and learning the new rules is the biggest issue, we are at 40 % attrition and not sure how many shooters are wanting to become SOs nor when a class could be organized......the SOs that have failed the test don't seem to want to take a recertification class again.

[Sandbagger123]

Shot it for the first time yesterday. The new rules confused a lot of SO's and shooters alike. there was one particular stage that many could not under stand.

it was a wall with a door way 3/4 down the wall. the start position was at the opposite end of the doorway. on the other end way a target one had to engage with 6 shots first. what confused many was could one cross the doorway, thus exposing one to the target in the doorway, or did they need to stop at the doorway and pie around.

the ruling was that it was ok to pass the doorway.