rgkeller Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 No more part of the mission than weeding out dead wood and focusing limited resources on those areas with a real potential for growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) Another thread helped me firm up my understanding of this issue. The argument is that Revolver Division is stagnant due to the round count vs stage design, not due to recoil/firearm dominance issues. If this is true USPSA would need to address the issue at a base level and it's not going to do it at the general level for all Divisions for the sake of a very small group, and I agree with that. But it may be willing to do it within the specific Division. Going to Minor for the Division won't address the base issue at all if left at 6 rounds. Going to Minor for the Division and allowing 8 rounds would not help either the multitude of .38 special 6 shots and would definitely alienate those already competing with a 6 shot major Revo. Going to 8 Minor/ 6 Major allows the die hards to be competitive with our 625's, M29's, Alaskans, .357 magnums/.38 +P's 6 shots which we never see, or any other Major PF 6 shot tho we may never win again, will nix any hope of one with a .38 special 6 shot of being competitive (when was the last time any of us saw one at a match?) and actually start a mini equipment race in Revo (which at heart every IPSC'r I've ever known thrives on whether they admit it or not). I've got 2 buddies who I'm able to drag along to most Revolver Matches and will shoot locally. 1 said he wouldn't shoot Revo anymore, I think that is short sighted and hope I can convince him to try as the premise is he shouldn't place lower than usual depending on COF design. The other said he would still shoot locally but not larger matches, but I argue that the larger matches usually have better COF with more options of engagement and that should help nullify the 8 shot advantage. I plan on going with the 625, but now have a line on a 627. Nice winter project! Edited June 29, 2013 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Snave Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 This really has been a fascinating discussion, in all the threads. Kind of information overload, though. Lots of opinions. As a new revolver shooter, am I going to be on a somewhat equal footing shooting my 625, or am I going to have to get a 627? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 In my opinion, 8 Minor is going to have a huge advantage. I'm gonna keep shooting the 625 though, I just bought it like 6 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I wonder what would happen if we scored revo minor only and had it remain at 6 rounds. Then anybody with one of the zillions of popular 38's/357's would have a place to be fairly competitive with their $400 gun. If we go to 8, where will we get the new shooters, after the big swell of ICORE dies down? They already can do that, most say they are only doing it for fun and they still don't shoot those guns. They never will. I'm not against the 6 minor thing but it solves no problem The guys shooting revolvers in ICORE are using 8 shooters. We need to be hospitable to other organizations competitors who may cross over. That means 8 minor. Then all have toys that are legal. i do appreciate your attention to this issue. The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. Was that last part a typo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Okay... Another hare-brained thought... Bear with me, I just got off of the motorcycle, I'm a little punchy. LOL What if we can make revolver a "one shot per target" division? Set a minimum power factor, and every shot scores major X 2, but only one hit per target is scored. This keeps wheel guns from getting hosed by 8-shot arrays. I guess we would still be hosed by 12- shot arrays, but so would production and SS shooters, so you don't see 12-shot arrays very often. I think this would get shooters more than allowing 8-shot guns, and this way nobody's gun is obsolete overnight. This is similar to what multigun does for "heavy metal" divisions, and it seems to work. Again, I'm just spitballing here. Carry on. (Gary) Since I do stats, I was wondering if such a thing could be done even if one wanted to do so. Edited July 1, 2013 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 how many folks shoot Icore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) how many folks shoot Icore? Don't know how many shooters but I counted 57 ICORE clubs and over 350 USPSA clubs in the U.S. How many shooters would like to shoot ICORE but it's not available? Edited July 1, 2013 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griz Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Going all-minor for revolvers would bring out droves of those K-frame .38 owners. Right up until they realized that they need to reload on the move and they might have to run. Then they'll angrily snap their suspenders, put their khaki vests back on and never be seen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No ICORE anywhere near here, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 how many folks shoot Icore?Don't know how many shooters but I counted 57 ICORE clubs and over 350 USPSA clubs in the U.S. How many shooters would like to shoot ICORE but it's not available? I would love to shoot icore, but there is nothing available by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No ICORE near me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No ICORE near me. I would love to shoot icore, but there is nothing available by me. No ICORE anywhere near here, unfortunately. Where is my "Simple" button... http://www.icore.org/Clubs.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No ICORE near me. I would love to shoot icore, but there is nothing available by me. No ICORE anywhere near here, unfortunately. Where is my "Simple" button... http://www.icore.org/Clubs.html Thanks? But still no icore near me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) how many folks shoot Icore? Don't know how many shooters but I counted 57 ICORE clubs and over 350 USPSA clubs in the U.S. How many shooters would like to shoot ICORE but it's not available? And I'll bet a bunch of those ICORE clubs are inactive. Most people do not have local access to ICORE matches in their home area. USPSA certainly offers a lot more opportunity to shoot matches. Edited July 1, 2013 by Carmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 how many folks shoot Icore? Don't know how many shooters but I counted 57 ICORE clubs and over 350 USPSA clubs in the U.S. How many shooters would like to shoot ICORE but it's not available? And I'll bet a bunch of those ICORE clubs are inactive. Most people do not have local access to ICORE matches in their home area. USPSA certainly offers a lot more opportunity to shoot matches. Yes, my point exactly. Also I think by helping revolver in USPSA it will also strengthen ICORE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No ICORE within 200 miles of South East Florida, at least not that I'm aware of. I hear there's a revo bunch somewhere near Orlando but I can't prove it and even at that it's too far to shoot for fun. Just no interest. It's Production and Limited w/ a few Open types down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Orlando and Volusia both hold ICORE matches monthly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelie Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Once the deciding factor in USPSA became volumn of fire (and speed), the revolver became a historical relic. To know, even though you're a pretty good shooter, that you'll finish in the bottom quarter of the total entry makes it a difficult choice to decide to show up anyway and shoot for yourself and maybe against 1 or 2 other round gun shooters. Most folks won't do that. What we're left with are the true revolver die-hards and a few looking for a special challenge. And of course the guys who shoot guns that hold a bunch of ammo. A bunch of ammo in your gun is a big advantage in USPSA shooting. Period. Imagine the 8 round per array rule changed to 6 round, then imagine that it was changed to 12. Run the numbers through your mind. What are the advantage and disadvantage possibilites for the various gun classes we have now? What would win overall? Who would be hind tit? Now figure out who might take up skeet shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 No ICORE near me. I would love to shoot icore, but there is nothing available by me. No ICORE anywhere near here, unfortunately. Where is my "Simple" button... http://www.icore.org/Clubs.html Thanks? But still no icore near me "Near" is certainly a relative term but the ICORE website does report a club in New Tripoli, PA, which appears to be about 90 minutes away from you. Near? I guess that is up to you. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) No ICORE near me. I would love to shoot icore, but there is nothing available by me. No ICORE anywhere near here, unfortunately. Where is my "Simple" button... http://www.icore.org/Clubs.html Thanks? But still no icore near me Kind of missed the point. If you would "love" to shoot ICORE, then start a club. I wanted to shoot IDPA, so I started a club. I wanted to shoot 3Gun, so I started a club. If there are SO many people wanting to shoot Revolver, and ICORE has done it right, then start a club and shoot what you love. I am sure you will have scads of like minded people come out of the woodwork to help you. Heck, I don't even shoot IDPA anymore and I just helped a new IDPA club get started at our range. Funny thing, NO ONE has ever asked about the feasibility of starting an ICORE club at our range, but we have just about every other shooting sport available. It "seems" that there are a few people who want to shoot Revolver, but there are no ICORE clubs, so their answer is to change USPSA Revo so it is closer to ICORE so they can be practiced up for the big ICORE matches. But ICORE left USPSA due to the equipment race and now the ICORE guys want to equipment race USPSA revo to match ICORE...still seems like a lot of effort for a few hundred members with no long term benefit to USPSA in general. The few places that have small ICORE clubs may see decline, and then USPSA local is going to have further pressure to match ICORE so the people who shoot revo can be practiced up. Seems like a dangerous dance. Edited July 2, 2013 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 But ICORE left USPSA due to the equipment race and now the ICORE guys want to equipment race USPSA revo to match ICORE...still seems like a lot of effort for a few hundred members with no long term benefit to USPSA in general. Mark, this kind of stuff is not helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 It "seems" that there are a few people who want to shoot Revolver, but there are no ICORE clubs, so their answer is to change USPSA Revo so it is closer to ICORE so they can be practiced up for the big ICORE matches. I've lost track of who said what in which thread, but I don't recall anyone in any of them implying they want to change USPSA to be like ICORE to practice for big ICORE matches. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I haven't read anything that leads me to the same conclusion. I did smile a little at the thought of the "big ICORE matches". Outside of the IRC that's pretty close to an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 But ICORE left USPSA due to the equipment race and now the ICORE guys want to equipment race USPSA revo to match ICORE...still seems like a lot of effort for a few hundred members with no long term benefit to USPSA in general. Mark, this kind of stuff is not helpful. No? Popular opinion or not, it does highlight a perspective. We are, in reality, talking about racing with a more specialized gun than is the norm/popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I did smile a little at the thought of the "big ICORE matches". Outside of the IRC that's pretty close to an oxymoron. I smile a bit when I hear ICORE matches {big or little) and all the ICORE shooters that will come running. You guys in A2 have it good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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