Poll on 3lb trigger limit in Production

[Aglifter]

I shoot production (XDm 5.25) pretty routinely, and have guns built specifically for competition in SS, open, and revolver.

IMO, Production should be our form of NASCAR - at least, what NASCAR was at one time. We need to keep it "stock" enough that GLOCK, Springfield, S&W, CZ, etc can market "Shoot the Same Model that Super Shooter used to win Nationals."

We all benefit from that - we get G34/35s, XD 5.25s, etc, and a serious, continuous emphasis on producing better guns, and the manufacturers get more money.

For whatever my opinion is worth - I don't think consumers will care about changing sight, since everyone seems to have his own favorite choice.

I think it should keep the 10 round limit, since removes capacity from something that the manufacturers have to compete over, and the market has a strong desire for more capacity on its own.

I would, almost, support permitting no other mods. I doubt manufacturers will chose to sell a model w. a sub-3# trigger to the populace.

Furthermore, it encourages the development of improved techniques - and, prohibiting any mods is easier to enforce than getting in to the - "this one is OK, this mod isn't, this mod was OK, but isn't now" mess.

[lugnut]

I shoot Production frequently and DON'T support the limit.

Why? I talked with lots of friends that don't like it, it's a great and growing division... plus- with all the people with sub 3 lb triggers... it will just motivate me more to beat as many of them as I can.

I don't get too upset at the BoD... after all... we all rave so much that at least in this sport we get to elect people to represent their regions!

[Flexmoney]

this tread is useless i would say only 1% of the membership comes to this site

Ah...but with 60% more members than USPSA has...think of the potential members. (J/K...tongue in cheek)

Sorry for the thread drift, and I'm not making fun of either of your positions, but after seeing this response...I just had to throw this link out there....( the beers I drank tonight were also the contributing factor )

Lol. I used a Ron B. quote tonight. "It's science."

[DocMedic]

this tread is useless i would say only 1% of the membership comes to this site

It helps create a sample size of shooters that shoot production, I would say its hardly useless, also it was pointed out, that those in these forums were first too know about the change, I wonder what would happen at a local match if you'd have drop this little bomb to those production shooters.

What I don't understand is how does putting a trigger pull limit make production "more" inviting to newer shooters? Is it suppose to promote fairness? So with the rule change in place someone gets hit for having a 2.9 lbs trigger, now he gets moved to open, explain the fairness in that? I honestly think that's kinda "F***ed up".

I feel this is a solution to a non-existent problem.

[Sin-ster]

Make it 5 pounds, but either way, I support it. There's no difference between single stack minor and production if there's no trigger limit for production.

There should have been a minimum trigger weight for production years ago.

I think I'm unclear on your comparison there, in the second sentence of the first paragraph.

Specifically-- the restriction on SAO guns in Production, the fact that SS *does* allow for Major scoring, the diversity in platforms (since SS guns are 1911's, one way/flavor or another)...

And most importantly, assuming the comparison was indeed accurate-- what difference would it make anyway? Are you suggesting we either restrict trigger pull, or combine the two Divisions?

[Neomet]

I don't shoot Production that much and frankly since I run a CZ its no sweat off my personal cajones either way but I say no. Two reasons...

#1 I apparently missed the outcry over the current state of trigger affairs in production. There are a ton of people out here in the Phoenix area shooting production and I have never heard the need for this brought up. Maybe I just missed it.

#2 How may people's guns have you just made illegal for Production? What are these people to do.... go pay for a second trigger job to bring the trigger weight up to 3#? Shoot Limited minor?

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[twodownzero]

Make it 5 pounds, but either way, I support it. There's no difference between single stack minor and production if there's no trigger limit for production.

There should have been a minimum trigger weight for production years ago.

I think I'm unclear on your comparison there, in the second sentence of the first paragraph.

Specifically-- the restriction on SAO guns in Production, the fact that SS *does* allow for Major scoring, the diversity in platforms (since SS guns are 1911's, one way/flavor or another)...

And most importantly, assuming the comparison was indeed accurate-- what difference would it make anyway? Are you suggesting we either restrict trigger pull, or combine the two Divisions?

I'm suggesting that we restrict trigger pull in production.

Production should be limited to box-stock guns with only sights changed if you ask me. If you want to tinker with your gun, the division called "Production" shouldn't be where you do it.

Single stack is limited to 1911s--you're correct. It's also the only other division with restrictive holster/mag pouch placement rules. The only meaningful distinction between single stack minor and production is the single action trigger. And if Production triggers @2 pounds are the norm, that distinction is blurred to irrelevance.

I say keep Production, and keep it minor only, so that 9mm stays the most popular caliber (cheaper that way). But there should have been a 5 lb limit on triggers years ago.

As for people thinking it'll promote DA/SA guns, I doubt it. I love the way a CZ fits in my hand, but I don't want to learn two triggers. I doubt I'm the only one.

I am not a big time production shooter so my opinion is worth what you paid for it. But count me in the minority that think that Production should be box-stock guns only. If there were an equitable way to enforce it, I'd even support eliminating everything short of grip tape and sights. I'd even go as far as to restrict springs and guide rods to stock material and type.

I can fully see the other side of this--you all spent money because the current rules allow it. That has been the argument against changing nearly any rules for the longest time (see the discussions in the 8 round revolvers for an example). That's why I say that this should have been done years ago. Someone was asleep at the switch when guys are selling heavily stippled, internally magwelled, trigger jobbed, $1000+ Glock 34s.

Do I think it makes a big difference? Not really. Bob Vogel could beat us all with a box stock Glock 17. I don't think that means we ought not encourage meaningful distinctions between the divisions, unless we want to just eliminate them all and shoot heads up.

Edited December 25, 2011 by twodownzero

[Nik Habicht]

The only meaningful distinction between single stack minor and production is the single action trigger.

Really? Then how about we modify Single-Stack Division to actually be reflective of its name, and to allow all single-stack guns, regardless of Action Type to play......

Right now the fact that SS is really a 1911 division is a pretty significant difference.....

[chendersby]

No comment just want you to know all your input is important.

[twodownzero]

The only meaningful distinction between single stack minor and production is the single action trigger.

Really? Then how about we modify Single-Stack Division to actually be reflective of its name, and to allow all single-stack guns, regardless of Action Type to play......

Right now the fact that SS is really a 1911 division is a pretty significant difference.....

1. If we did change "Single stack" such that any and all single stacks that could meet the weight and capacity requirements were allowed, would anyone honestly say that it was inequitable? I fear people with better skills than me, not a guy with a single action Sig P220 beating me because a Sig is somehow greater than a 1911. The 1911s-only requirement in Single Stack exists for historical reasons related to our game, not due to competitive equity. The only people complaining if the "Single stack" division allowed basically all single stack/single action guns that could fit the division requirements would be purists. If there's a legitimate argument that it'd somehow diminish competitive equity to allow guns other than 1911s to play (assuming they fit in the box and meet the weight requirements), I'd like to hear it.

2. Significant how? Historically significant, yes. Single-stack, 1911, Browning worshiping-Tim significance? Sure. Some sort of mechanical, actual on the paper empirical significance? I think not.

While I remain unpersuaded that equipment differences play a large part in our game, as the rock stars like Vogel and Sevigny can beat us all with basically stock Glocks regardless of division, if we're going to recognize a single action trigger as a competitive advantage, we might as well give the DA/SA and striker-fired guns a division to play where their trigger isn't a mechanical, competitive disadvantage.

Production and Single stack are our most "practical" divisions. I don't see why the rules shouldn't reflect that. I am sympathetic to those who say that it will be difficult to enforce this rule, and I would support efforts to standardize the procedure to enhance competitive equity. But it's hard to think of anything more missing from the production division than more restrictive requirements to keep it a truly, "Production" friendly division.

I don't think a 2 lb trigger in Production is "unfair," but it's not "Production" for any striker fired gun. And I'm surprised that I'm in such a small minority here.

We have so many divisions for gun tinkerers. Why can't we have one for people who just shoot? That's one thing we can never take away from Production. A box-stock gun can definitely be competitive. I love tinkering as much as most, but I do it in Limited, and in some small respect, Single stack. My production gun is and always has been 100%, out of the box, down to the spring and guide rod, sights, and trigger--STOCK. And few here would argue that the box-stock M&P Pro isn't competitive. It's just fine. Could it be better? Sure. But it wouldn't be "production."

Every single "production" shooter who wants to have 15 rounds, or a 2 pound trigger, could just shoot in Limited. And I bet a whole lot of them could be way more competitive than they think, even with a minor gun.

The problem with having divisions is that the lines will always be somewhat arbitrary. But even arbitrary lines can be meaningful in the bigger picture of what we're trying to support.

I fully recognize that many will not agree with me, and that's fine. If this rule is overturned, you can continue to shoot against me with your 2 lb triggers in your "production" guns. And if I show up, I'll be shooting a box-stock gun against you, and that's fine with me.

In fact, I have shot a box-stock gun against you at Central Jersey, Nik. At least I think. I know when I shot single stack at that club, I was the only one! So the next time I came, I shot production instead.

[sdm74]

Current totals 94 disagree 28 approve of decision ... of people that shoot production..

Merry Christmas

[Jim Norman]

If we were to restrict Production to only "Stock" guns, we'd soon have a flood of purpose built guns. That would skew the game, either in fact or perception just the same as having or not having a TP weight minimum does or will.

This is the reason that IPSC went to 15 rounds. They were seeing purpose built guns with greater and greater capacity. Right now just about any DA/SA or Striker gun is or can be made competitive at little cost and the thousands that are already shooting modified guns won;t have to spend thousands of dollars to get back to a new standard. No one is forcing anyone to modify their new DA/SA to shoot now, but this change will force a considerable number of people to do so.

As for a 3# TP being the floor, a crisp 4# is better than a gritty, mushy 2.5# TP. As has been said, Dave, Bob and Phil can beat most of us with a muzzle loader. As for new shooters feeling they have to spend a fortune to shoot in USPSA, we, at least at our clubs stress NOT buying ANY equipment or doing any mods until you have shot at least a handful of matches and got the basics of what we do down at least a little bit. We stress that they are NOT shooting against the top guns, but against all the others that are starting out. D against D, C against C and so on.

I am against this restriction in Production. We have a popular division that is growing and that one can enter and be competitive in for around $600.00, WHY, WHY do we want to mess around with it?

[vluc]

Production and Single stack are our most "practical" divisions. I don't see why the rules shouldn't reflect that.

Hmm, the most common SS work done of their guns is trigger work, mag funnel, grip tape or checkering. hardly stock, is it, but eminently practical.

We have so many divisions for gun tinkerers. Why can't we have one for people who just shoot?

We do, We have people who want to compete and people who want to shoot. There is a place for both in Prod and SS.

Merry Christmas!

Edited December 25, 2011 by vluc

[Chuck Anderson]

Polls are interesting but very limited in the useful info provided simPly due to small sample size. I do find the numbers a bit surprising. I didn't think there would be that many people in favor of the limit. I do find it telling that of the 40 ish votes for only one person has posted in favor on this thread. It's about what I've seen off Enos. The ones with the minority position you really have to talk to because the don't want to get jumped.

The other interesting stat, at least right now is that less than 20% of frequent shooters support, a little over 20% of less frequent support and 33% of never shoot support. The less experience you have with the division, the more you want a trigger pull limit.

The question I have is are those votes because they know what's better for Production, or is the trigger pull now holding them away from shooting Production. If its the latter there might be some validity to the cursed thing.

[mlmiller1]

With that type of thinking how would anyone ever be a gm in production?

I believe that is what he was expressing, when it was introduced, he never intended anyone to stay in production. That was of course coming from someone with plenty of money. No real regard for those with tighter budgets. That was the first year nationals was held in Oklahoma.

Anyway, last thing I want is one more concern or thing to buy just to be sure my trigger isn't too light. I also don't want the club to have to buy a trigger pull gauge just to have one(we probably won't).

MLM

[Nik Habicht]

The only meaningful distinction between single stack minor and production is the single action trigger.

Really? Then how about we modify Single-Stack Division to actually be reflective of its name, and to allow all single-stack guns, regardless of Action Type to play......

Right now the fact that SS is really a 1911 division is a pretty significant difference.....

1. If we did change "Single stack" such that any and all single stacks that could meet the weight and capacity requirements were allowed, would anyone honestly say that it was inequitable? I fear people with better skills than me, not a guy with a single action Sig P220 beating me because a Sig is somehow greater than a 1911. The 1911s-only requirement in Single Stack exists for historical reasons related to our game, not due to competitive equity. The only people complaining if the "Single stack" division allowed basically all single stack/single action guns that could fit the division requirements would be purists. If there's a legitimate argument that it'd somehow diminish competitive equity to allow guns other than 1911s to play (assuming they fit in the box and meet the weight requirements), I'd like to hear it.

2. Significant how? Historically significant, yes. Single-stack, 1911, Browning worshiping-Tim significance? Sure. Some sort of mechanical, actual on the paper empirical significance? I think not.

While I remain unpersuaded that equipment differences play a large part in our game, as the rock stars like Vogel and Sevigny can beat us all with basically stock Glocks regardless of division, if we're going to recognize a single action trigger as a competitive advantage, we might as well give the DA/SA and striker-fired guns a division to play where their trigger isn't a mechanical, competitive disadvantage.

Production and Single stack are our most "practical" divisions. I don't see why the rules shouldn't reflect that. I am sympathetic to those who say that it will be difficult to enforce this rule, and I would support efforts to standardize the procedure to enhance competitive equity. But it's hard to think of anything more missing from the production division than more restrictive requirements to keep it a truly, "Production" friendly division.

I don't think a 2 lb trigger in Production is "unfair," but it's not "Production" for any striker fired gun. And I'm surprised that I'm in such a small minority here.

We have so many divisions for gun tinkerers. Why can't we have one for people who just shoot? That's one thing we can never take away from Production. A box-stock gun can definitely be competitive. I love tinkering as much as most, but I do it in Limited, and in some small respect, Single stack. My production gun is and always has been 100%, out of the box, down to the spring and guide rod, sights, and trigger--STOCK. And few here would argue that the box-stock M&P Pro isn't competitive. It's just fine. Could it be better? Sure. But it wouldn't be "production."

Every single "production" shooter who wants to have 15 rounds, or a 2 pound trigger, could just shoot in Limited. And I bet a whole lot of them could be way more competitive than they think, even with a minor gun.

The problem with having divisions is that the lines will always be somewhat arbitrary. But even arbitrary lines can be meaningful in the bigger picture of what we're trying to support.

I fully recognize that many will not agree with me, and that's fine. If this rule is overturned, you can continue to shoot against me with your 2 lb triggers in your "production" guns. And if I show up, I'll be shooting a box-stock gun against you, and that's fine with me.

In fact, I have shot a box-stock gun against you at Central Jersey, Nik. At least I think. I know when I shot single stack at that club, I was the only one! So the next time I came, I shot production instead.

Well Tim, you missed my point....

You seem hung up on the meaning of the word "Production," and seem to think that the current rules for the division don't live up to the name. Yet, you seem to be o.k. with Single-Stack not meaning what it says.....

I don't particularly enjoy tinkering with guns -- mine are generally tinkered with a bit when acquired: 25 cent trigger job, Sevigny sights, Tru-Grip, extended mag release/standard slide release installed if the gun came with something different. Then I generally leave them alone, unless something breaks. I suspect my triggers are above 3 lbs, though with wear they could have lightened up.....

Given the type of personality it takes to compete in the sport, and given that one of the original principles was to test both technique and gear, I think it's highly unrealistic to think that competitors in one division won't want to tinker with their equipment.....

[smokshwn]

I'm suggesting that we restrict trigger pull in production.

Production should be limited to box-stock guns with only sights changed if you ask me. If you want to tinker with your gun, the division called "Production" shouldn't be where you do it.

Single stack is limited to 1911s--you're correct. It's also the only other division with restrictive holster/mag pouch placement rules. The only meaningful distinction between single stack minor and production is the single action trigger. And if Production triggers @2 pounds are the norm, that distinction is blurred to irrelevance.

I say keep Production, and keep it minor only, so that 9mm stays the most popular caliber (cheaper that way). But there should have been a 5 lb limit on triggers years ago.

As for people thinking it'll promote DA/SA guns, I doubt it. I love the way a CZ fits in my hand, but I don't want to learn two triggers. I doubt I'm the only one.

I am not a big time production shooter so my opinion is worth what you paid for it. But count me in the minority that think that Production should be box-stock guns only. If there were an equitable way to enforce it, I'd even support eliminating everything short of grip tape and sights. I'd even go as far as to restrict springs and guide rods to stock material and type.

I can fully see the other side of this--you all spent money because the current rules allow it. That has been the argument against changing nearly any rules for the longest time (see the discussions in the 8 round revolvers for an example). That's why I say that this should have been done years ago. Someone was asleep at the switch when guys are selling heavily stippled, internally magwelled, trigger jobbed, $1000+ Glock 34s.

Have fun chasing the horses, let us know when you catch them. Your work is cut out for though as they left the barn years ago.

To rant about what production SHOULD have been years ago misses the entire point of this thread. Production (in the absence of your restrictions) has become one of the most popular divisions and is the fastest growing division in USPSA. That speaks clearly against any idea of what you think the division SHOULD be and and speaks equally clearly about what the shooters who participate in the division desire.

[GrumpyOne]

I'm suggesting that we restrict trigger pull in production.

Production should be limited to box-stock guns with only sights changed if you ask me. If you want to tinker with your gun, the division called "Production" shouldn't be where you do it.

Single stack is limited to 1911s--you're correct. It's also the only other division with restrictive holster/mag pouch placement rules. The only meaningful distinction between single stack minor and production is the single action trigger. And if Production triggers @2 pounds are the norm, that distinction is blurred to irrelevance.

I say keep Production, and keep it minor only, so that 9mm stays the most popular caliber (cheaper that way). But there should have been a 5 lb limit on triggers years ago.

As for people thinking it'll promote DA/SA guns, I doubt it. I love the way a CZ fits in my hand, but I don't want to learn two triggers. I doubt I'm the only one.

I am not a big time production shooter so my opinion is worth what you paid for it. But count me in the minority that think that Production should be box-stock guns only. If there were an equitable way to enforce it, I'd even support eliminating everything short of grip tape and sights. I'd even go as far as to restrict springs and guide rods to stock material and type.

I can fully see the other side of this--you all spent money because the current rules allow it. That has been the argument against changing nearly any rules for the longest time (see the discussions in the 8 round revolvers for an example). That's why I say that this should have been done years ago. Someone was asleep at the switch when guys are selling heavily stippled, internally magwelled, trigger jobbed, $1000+ Glock 34s.

Have fun chasing the horses, let us know when you catch them. Your work is cut out for though as they left the barn years ago.

To rant about what production SHOULD have been years ago misses the entire point of this thread. Production (in the absence of your restrictions) has become one of the most popular divisions and is the fastest growing division in USPSA. That speaks clearly against any idea of what you think the division SHOULD be and and speaks equally clearly about what the shooters who participate in the division desire.

As someone once said about the atomic bomb, the genie is out of the bottle, and we'll play hell getting it back in.

[bbbean]

this tread is useless i would say only 1% of the membership comes to this site

They are an especially involved and vocal 1%, though, and the other 99% don't seem to congregate in any one place. I'd say that this board is very much a representative sample of active USPSA shooters, ROs, MDs, and other key volunteers and supporters. They've also driven other rules changes in the past and are largely responsible for the success of our sport.

FWIW, I don't support anything that would make existing equipment obsolete, and I don't think we need one more thing for new shooters to worry about.

BB

[Gary Stevens]

The only meaningful distinction between single stack minor and production is the single action trigger.

Really? Then how about we modify Single-Stack Division to actually be reflective of its name, and to allow all single-stack guns, regardless of Action Type to play......

Right now the fact that SS is really a 1911 division is a pretty significant difference.....

I originally named it 1911 Single Stack Division. It has been abreviated somewhat over time.

Gary

[Flexmoney]

No comment just want you to know all your input is important.

Chris,

Thank you for keeping an open mind on this. As a loooong time Production shooter, I appreciate it. Heck, as a CRO, Chronoman, Match Director, & Section Coordinator...I appreciate it.

[walter hornby]

Howdy guys. i thought i would through my two cents worth in from the IPSC side. in IPSC we have a 5 pound trigger pull. the reason it was introduced was to discourage people from doing trigger jobs for sub 2 trigger polls. the thought was that it was to be an out of the box division. of course it is now the biggest arms race going in both IPSC and USPSA. As for taking too much time at the chrono it doesn't take any more time then putting the gun in the box. Normally the chronoman handles it as he should know how to do it, long slow lift on the centre of the trigger. While the rules don't allow for it, the competitor is usually allowed to try once himself if it has failed the three tries by the Chronoman (usually if it fails the first time the chronoman and the competitor are taking a lot of time for the second and third test so usually by the third test the competitor know he is hooped ) and at a level three or higher match this would not be allowed.

This procedure does work. we had a case at a double qualifier where a gun passed on Saturday but not on Sunday. It had both the chronoman (and experience gun smith) and the competitor (a Canadian Grand Master) scratching their head. When the competitor got home he tore the gun apart to find he had a broken spring (i think he said trigger but don't take that as gospel.)

IPSC did look at lowering the 5 pound trigger pull as they have been finding that a well worn gun can go below 5 pounds but the proposal died. My understanding, and again please don't take is as gospel since about the only thing i pay attention for production is what rules i have to enforce, is that the thought was if they allowed a lighter trigger pull weight people would start building guns to the lighter trigger pull defeating the purpose of the division, as an out of the box division.

[rishii]

I'm one of the sometimes production shooter that voted for the 3 lbs limit, I shoot it sometime just to remind my self how badly I suck at it.

I shoot a fairly stock S&W 5906 in production

I usually shoot open and my racegun has a sub 3 lbs trigger pull & if I holstered it with the safety off, I would be DQed

The glock, ,Xd, M&p guys will say my safeties on the trigger and it's engaged, my response is, if I don't touch the trigger on my racegun, it won't go off ether

But it's a safe action, DA only, etc,well there maybe a little more take up than a traditional SA gun, but their still holstering a gun with a sub 2-3 lbs trigger pull, with no additional safeties to prevent it from firing if you get on the trigger early

My point is from a safety stand point how can we say it's ok for production gun with a sub 2 or 3 lbs trigger pull, to just holster up, but in the same rule book, a if 1911 or browning high power shooter with a 5-8 lbs trigger pull holstered it with the safety off, it's a DQ

I've read the posts that state what if my trigger pull lighten do to wear, old spring, etc

Well the power factor floor for production is 125, how many of you load your ammo to 125, and risk going to a match not making power factor

I know this is not the popular opinion, but it mine

[Chuck Anderson]

I'm one of the sometimes production shooter that voted for the 3 lbs limit, I shoot it sometime just to remind my self how badly I suck at it.

I shoot a fairly stock S&W 5906 in production

I usually shoot open and my racegun has a sub 3 lbs trigger pull & if I holstered it with the safety off, I would be DQed

The glock, ,Xd, M&p guys will say my safeties on the trigger and it's engaged, my response is, if I don't touch the trigger on my racegun, it won't go off ether

But it's a safe action, DA only, etc,well there maybe a little more take up than a traditional SA gun, but their still holstering a gun with a sub 2-3 lbs trigger pull, with no additional safeties to prevent it from firing if you get on the trigger early

My point is from a safety stand point how can we say it's ok for production gun with a sub 2 or 3 lbs trigger pull, to just holster up, but in the same rule book, a if 1911 or browning high power shooter with a 5-8 lbs trigger pull holstered it with the safety off, it's a DQ

I've read the posts that state what if my trigger pull lighten do to wear, old spring, etc

Well the power factor floor for production is 125, how many of you load your ammo to 125, and risk going to a match not making power factor

I know this is not the popular opinion, but it mine

So by that reasoning should the same restriction apply to the thousands of competitors using Glock, XD and M&P in Lim/Lim10 and Open?

[twodownzero]

Hmm, the most common SS work done of their guns is trigger work, mag funnel, grip tape or checkering. hardly stock, is it, but eminently practical.

We do, We have people who want to compete and people who want to shoot. There is a place for both in Prod and SS.

Most of that stuff came on the 1911 that I shoot in single stack and it's far from a high-end gun.

Well Tim, you missed my point....

You seem hung up on the meaning of the word "Production," and seem to think that the current rules for the division don't live up to the name. Yet, you seem to be o.k. with Single-Stack not meaning what it says.....

I don't particularly enjoy tinkering with guns -- mine are generally tinkered with a bit when acquired: 25 cent trigger job, Sevigny sights, Tru-Grip, extended mag release/standard slide release installed if the gun came with something different. Then I generally leave them alone, unless something breaks. I suspect my triggers are above 3 lbs, though with wear they could have lightened up.....

Given the type of personality it takes to compete in the sport, and given that one of the original principles was to test both technique and gear, I think it's highly unrealistic to think that competitors in one division won't want to tinker with their equipment.....

No Nik, I didn't miss your point. I just cut to the chase. Saying that something is a "significant" difference doesn't make it so. The most meaningful difference from behind the gun between shooting single stack and shooting production is that single stack guns have a single action trigger. In the divisions that allow single actions and other types of guns, single action guns far overwhelm all others. It is just not the case that a lighter and shorter trigger pull is not an advantage, and our rules have recognized and distinguished that feature for a long time.

If you're running a stock connector in a Glock, I don't think you'd have to worry about a 3 lb trigger rule.

I do think that the "Production" division should reflect the essence of the word that defines it, but it isn't just a word. When I think of the production division, I think of going down to the gun store, selecting my choice of 9mm full size (or in some cases, long slide) guns from the case, grabbing a few mags and hitting the range. The popular guns in the Production division seem to reflect this as well. The rules against external modifications, which have been interpreted to the extreme (think back to the decisions regarding paint on the inside of the mag well, the prohibition of a G17 slide on a G34 frame, bumping people to open for putting grip tape on their slide, etc.). Production is and always has been a very rigid division with stricter rules than any other.

Have fun chasing the horses, let us know when you catch them. Your work is cut out for though as they left the barn years ago.

To rant about what production SHOULD have been years ago misses the entire point of this thread. Production (in the absence of your restrictions) has become one of the most popular divisions and is the fastest growing division in USPSA. That speaks clearly against any idea of what you think the division SHOULD be and and speaks equally clearly about what the shooters who participate in the division desire.

I don't disagree with you, except for on one point.

These aren't "my" restrictions. The board apparently voted on this and the vote wasn't even close. This thread suggests that these are "proposed" changes but that isn't the case. These changes have already been voted on and will be part of the new rule book unless the board reverses itself.

I really hope that future rule changes don't always have to consider that people have spent money in reliance on the current rules. I can only imagine how silly it'd be if we were all shooting single stack open guns because nobody wanted to 'let the horses out of the barn.'

I wouldn't have proposed this rule and I would have cast a vote very reluctantly if I were on the board. But I definitely fully support their decision to do so, and I'm glad to see the Production division going in the right direction.