RJH Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 There may have already been a thread on here like this before, I might have even started one, I did the search but couldn't find anything So, with that out of the way is there any hope for iron sight divisions in USPSA? I was looking at clubs around here and they seem to run somewhere between 10 to 20% iron sight shooters. Most of those guys are in limited, some with real guns, some doing the old load up your production gun thing. And that number seems to fall all the time At this point production 15 hasn't seen to move the needle but, I think more time needs to pass. I am not hopeful however So it makes me wonder if there is anything that can be done to bump the Ironsight division numbers. I'm not talking change division rules or anything like that at this point but, I'm wondering about things outside of equipment changes. I want to think something like hosting a match centered around one of the iron sight divisions like say a limited division trophy match might help and could be done on the local level but, iron sight Nationals couldn't sell out.... Maybe it's just the way it is now and if you want to shoot an iron sight gun you kind of shoot against no one or everyone depending on how you want to look at it. Anybody else got any thoughts or ideas? Does anybody else even care to shoot irons again LOL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywizzle Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I don't think there's anything to be done for two major reasons. Younger shooters are growing up watching YouTubers talk about force multipliers and the necessity of being target focused at all times. Optics ready pistols are becoming the rule rather than the exception. Those new shooters buying their first guns are just starting with red dots. The second reason is older shooters losing their eyesight. It's a lot more enjoyable to put the dot on a target and hit what you're shooting at. It's easier to get a prescription that works with shooting red dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 production should have just gone to a box, or mag length rule when AWB sunset.. The best most fun for the game is a high capacity 9mm gun. Also the most common platform in the world.. Ridiculous USPSA has never had a division that suits it. the 15 round thing is a stupid half measure that will accomplish nothing.,, So really without a division rule change I think irons are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 In another thread I wrote USPSA will be a 9mm optics game by the end of the season. CO, LO, Open. Show up with something else and you win your Division, because you are the only one in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 38 minutes ago, zzt said: because you are the only one in it. I'd still end up third place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Iron sights are obsolete. In 10 years they will join land phones, tape recorders, and newspapers. I still shoot them once in a while for some sentimental reasons. And it’s all good. Having said that, LO should be major/minor in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 In my area a club held a Production vs SS match for several years. Not sure when they started but it was pretty popular. Eventually they switched it up and now have Open vs PCC and other combos. I'm not sure if attendance dwindling was the reason they changed or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 16 minutes ago, cheby said: Iron sights are obsolete. No lol 16 minutes ago, cheby said: In 10 years they will join land phones, tape recorders, and newspapers. Probably 16 minutes ago, cheby said: I still shoot them once in a while for some sentimental reasons. And it’s all good. Yep 16 minutes ago, cheby said: Having said that, LO should be major/minor in my opinion Hell no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywizzle Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, zzt said: In another thread I wrote USPSA will be a 9mm optics game by the end of the season. CO, LO, Open. Show up with something else and you win your Division, because you are the only one in it. Two years ago I shot limited for the season for the first time. I had a good time but couldn't help but notice barely any other shooters we're competing in limited. I've always said shooting is like golf where it's you vs the course, and other shooters don't factor into what one gets out of it. Last season I shot carry optics and enjoyed it even more so. I have a season's worth of 40 major loaded and I honestly don't know when I'll use it. My gunsmith is doing a lot of limited optics conversions right now. I've thought about doing the same with my limited setup but I already have too many guns in too many divisions. First world problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 hours ago, RJH said: So it makes me wonder if there is anything that can be done to bump the Ironsight division numbers. I'm not talking change division rules or anything like that at this point but, I'm wondering about things outside of equipment changes. So you're wondering if there's anything that can be done to make shooting iron sights more popular, besides the thing that could be done to make shooting iron sights more popular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 hours ago, zzt said: In another thread I wrote USPSA will be a 9mm optics game by the end of the season. It’s not just USPSA, I suspect IPSC will go the same way eventually. Not sure it will happen on the timeline you suggest, it will be a gradual/regional thing. Personally, I don’t see Open lasting much longer either. I know that’s probably not a popular opinion, but when people can buy two CO/LO/ProdOptics guns for less than half the price of an Open gun, at some point fiscal restraint is going to kick in. If IPSC brings in a Standard-Optics in Major/Minor it will probably be the mail in the coffin for both Standard and Open in that sport. Revolver is basically dead, Classic/Single-Stack will last maybe a decade. Once all those that remember the origins of the sport are gone, these divisions will fade too. I think IPSC will be left with ProdOptics in Minor, and Standard/Optics in Major/Minor, I think that will offer a good balance of divisions. USPSA will have probably have LO/CO and maybe an out-of-the-box ProdOptics as an entry/low-cost division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordManHammer Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 hours ago, BritinUSA said: Personally, I don’t see Open lasting much longer either. I know that’s probably not a popular opinion, but when people can buy two CO/LO/ProdOptics guns for less than half the price of an Open gun, at some point fiscal restraint is going to kick in. I believe there will always be a segment of shooters with expendable income who want to push the limits of tech and performance. Open will never die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I see a slight increase in the number of Open shooters. They shot CO and now want major scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Based on the number of $8K+ guns at matches around here, Open's not going anywhere soon. The only thing holding it back is the need to reload or buy specialty ammo. The cost of the pistol is essentially meaningless if you are going to get serious about shooting a lot. Iron sight divisions will do what they do for as long as people will shoot them. Revo and L10 have been functionally dead for decades but are still there because people seem to want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Agreed with most. I might quibble a little bit about Open dying off; some people want major scoring, and some people have disposable income the spend on damascus steel firing pins and titanium recoil springs and custom bespoke handmade guiderods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Open will die out in the same manner as that other divisions have. The number of participants will dwindle to a level where there will be little competition at L1 matches where 95% of the members shoot. Once it reaches that breakdown point it will all but vanish, just like revolver, L10 and soon Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 10 hours ago, BritinUSA said: It’s not just USPSA, I suspect IPSC will go the same way eventually. Not sure it will happen on the timeline you suggest, it will be a gradual/regional thing. Personally, I don’t see Open lasting much longer either. I know that’s probably not a popular opinion, but when people can buy two CO/LO/ProdOptics guns for less than half the price of an Open gun, at some point fiscal restraint is going to kick in. thats not what we see when we look at any other sport on earth. people LIKE spending more money on higher performance stuff. as the only dot division with major scoring, i expect open will continue to grow. LO will act as sort of a slightly cheaper gateway drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
858 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 10 hours ago, BritinUSA said: Personally, I don’t see Open lasting much longer either. I know that’s probably not a popular opinion, but when people can buy two CO/LO/ProdOptics guns for less than half the price of an Open gun, at some point fiscal restraint is going to kick in. Open has always been more expensive than the other divisions. Unless I was trying to collect another GM ranking I wouldn't bother with LO. LO is just a stepping stone from CO to Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywizzle Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I think Open will be around for a good while. The fastest division will always have it's appeal. If they allow comps in LO it would steal a few shooters from Open but I don't think that is going to happen. I do have my first custom open gun on order so I hope I'm correct.. hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 42 minutes ago, Haywizzle said: If they allow comps in LO it would steal a few shooters from Open but I don't think that is going to happen. Nor do I. The allure of CO and LO now is you can shoot factory 130~132 PF ammo. Factory can be bought for less (in some cases) than the components you need to roll your own. Comps for minor loads only start working at around 150 PF. You have to reload. If you have to load anyway, why not shoot Open major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 minutes ago, zzt said: Nor do I. The allure of CO and LO now is you can shoot factory 130~132 PF ammo. Factory can be bought for less (in some cases) than the components you need to roll your own. Comps for minor loads only start working at around 150 PF. You have to reload. If you have to load anyway, why not shoot Open major. i suspect it’s different for everyone. personally i have always reloaded for every division because frugal. for me, the allure of co was a dot on a practical-ish duty/carry gun. the allure of LO is that i already had a limited gun that i love, and for $60 i could mount a dot on it and still be able to use it and shoot it measurably faster and more accurately than my co gun. open has no allure for me, mostly because of the noise, but my wife loves it, and so do several other local shooters who have made the jump in the last year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truespode Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, zzt said: If you have to load anyway, why not shoot Open major. I don't have to load but do prefer it. Although at current costs I'm thinking of shooting factory until the next crisis price gouge. I just got an MPA for LO. I love it but won't be any better with it, just maybe smiling a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 10 hours ago, BritinUSA said: Open will die out in the same manner as that other divisions have. The number of participants will dwindle to a level where there will be little competition at L1 matches where 95% of the members shoot. You've been predicting the imminent demise of Open since about 2018. Maybe you'll be right one of these years... my money is on later rather than sooner unless the rules change drastically though. Lots of people like the top-fuel nature of Open. The cost delta from a full-house LO gun is what, another $200 for a comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 LOL, I'm shooting my first ever PCSL match tomorrow and I'm looking forward to the 2 hits anywhere scoring..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now