New to reloading, have some questions re: 9mm major

[abtrumpet]

I've just started reloading, and I finished my first few batches of 9mm major for use in my CZ Czechmate. Here's my formula that I've tried:

Mixed brass

7.8-8.0 gr Hodgon HS-6

CCI #500 Primers

Berry's RN 124gr bullets

OAL 1.16 & 1.17"

 

I'm dealing with a couple of issues. The first issue I encountered was jamming. This happened with my first batch, which had an OAL of 1.17". I reduced that to 1.16" and it mostly solved that problem. The second problem I found at the USPSA match yesterday. I had about 7 or 8 duds, that is, the round chambered and I pulled the trigger, nothing. Since it was a match I couldn't stop and check out the problem, I just racked another round and kept going. This was very frustrating and killed my times. This, I think, is the main issue I need to solve. The brass I was using was mixed brass, decapped and "cleaned" by somebody else, but I am wondering if the primer pockets were not actually cleaned and this caused the problem.

 

Also, I am finding that I can find magnum pistol primers but basically no SPP -- is it safe to use magnum primers with 9mm major? Thanks.

Edited January 18, 2022 by abtrumpet

[Sarge]

Your ammo is too long. In general CZ needs short ammo. Did you do plunk test?

[Furrly]

What Sarge said is possibly one of your problems. But If you could more specific about what type of jams and what type of duds, that would help with feedback from all whi will respond. 

[Kwontanamo]

I also recommend getting brass that is roll sized. Give you that extra confidence it’ll chamber 

[HesedTech]

4 hours ago, abtrumpet said:

I had about 7 or 8 duds,

Reduce power hammer spring with too hard of a primer.

 

Plunk test, plunk test, plunk test. 
 

If it won’t fire with 500 then Magnum primers will probably be worse. However, check the charge weight when using the extra ignition of magnums. 
 

Welcome to the world of perfecting your ammo making process. 

[zzt]

Another thing that might be contributing to the duds is not fully seating the primer.  Run some of the same ammo at practice.  If you get duds, load them up and shoot again.  If they go off on the second or third try, you are not fully seating your primers.

[NoSteel]

You need to get on the practice range where you have some control of your ammo so you can pull a “dud” and see what is going on with the primer,  otherwise we’re guessing….  This should have been done before going to your match otherwise as you’ve found karma gets you.  Running up major loads,  I hope you are chrono’ing / checking your loads for length & setback to avoid a boom!!  As noted,  unless the chamber has been reamed that CZ requires a shorter load..   Plunk Test!!

[vegaspete61]

 not fully seating the primer

This is the most common issue for newer reloaders. Don't be affraid to seat them deep...below flush.

 

Your ammo is too long. In general CZ needs short ammo

This too. 

[superdude]

Some of the Berry's RN bullets have long noses which allow them to be seated long even in barrels with short throats.  But the plunk test is essential to determine what length will fit in your chamber, and you have to sort this out first. 

 

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

 

[iflyskyhigh]

Man. Jumping in with both feet. 

[Amra86]

I run federal small pistol magnum primers in my Czechmate without problems. I load Precision Delta 124JHP loaded to 1.165. My barrel has been throat reamed.

[Reloader98]

On 1/18/2022 at 3:43 AM, abtrumpet said:

I've just started reloading, and I finished my first few batches of 9mm major for use in my CZ Czechmate. Here's my formula that I've tried:

Mixed brass

7.8-8.0 gr Hodgon HS-6

CCI #500 Primers

Berry's RN 124gr bullets

OAL 1.16 & 1.17"

 

I'm dealing with a couple of issues. The first issue I encountered was jamming. This happened with my first batch, which had an OAL of 1.17". I reduced that to 1.16" and it mostly solved that problem. The second problem I found at the USPSA match yesterday. I had about 7 or 8 duds, that is, the round chambered and I pulled the trigger, nothing. Since it was a match I couldn't stop and check out the problem, I just racked another round and kept going. This was very frustrating and killed my times. This, I think, is the main issue I need to solve. The brass I was using was mixed brass, decapped and "cleaned" by somebody else, but I am wondering if the primer pockets were not actually cleaned and this caused the problem.

 

Also, I am finding that I can find magnum pistol primers but basically no SPP -- is it safe to use magnum primers with 9mm major? Thanks.

I found in my CZ TSO and this goes for most CZ guns, that’s the oal needs to be around .002 - .004 shorter than other guns do for different loads. That was my TSO .40 for limited. 
my 2011 open gun is loaded at 1.170 but as said CZ’ sneed em short. As for the primer issues, you could always try a heavier main spring to help with ignition but it may come down to the round sticking out of the barrel a little to far. The plunk test is helpful though. That will really help. 

[boatdoc173]

as  @Sarge  said  . OAL is long.   MY fussiest CZ  likes  1.140"  however I only load with  4.0gr of titegroup. My loads are NOT major.keep  in mind the shorter the OAL, the higher the  compression forces when fired(higher pressure).

[ysrracer]

OP, if you're new to reloading, 9mm major is NOT the place to start.

[abtrumpet]

On 1/18/2022 at 4:31 AM, Sarge said:

Your ammo is too long. In general CZ needs short ammo. Did you do plunk test?

 

I honestly have no idea what that means. I feel a bit embarrassed but as another poster mentioned, I'm "jumping in with both feet."

[abtrumpet]

Ok, great. I will shorten the OAL down. That seems to be a common issue.

[zzt]

2 minutes ago, abtrumpet said:

 

I honestly have no idea what that means. I feel a bit embarrassed but as another poster mentioned, I'm "jumping in with both feet."

 

The plunk test is to drop a loaded round into the chamber, then turn it by hand.  If it sits proud of the hood, it is too long.  If even, but you cannot turn it, it is too long.  Back off your powder charge while experimenting.  The shorter the OAL with the same charge, the higher the pressure.

 

BTW, an OAL that works with one bullet may not with another.  So check.

[ysrracer]

OP, stop. You're in over your head. Find someone that can help you in person.

[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

OP, stop. You're in over your head. Find someone that can help you in person.

Agreed

[AHI]

56 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

OP, stop. You're in over your head. Find someone that can help you in person.

Agreed also . Having "worked" with two CZ open guns with unthroughted chambers. He is Two plus grains over what is needed to make 170 power factor. And well into primer popping territory. Which is just under parts flying territory.

[GrumpyOne]

First, get a chrono. You need to know how fast those bullets are going. 

Second, back off the charge until you know how fast those bullets are going, you need to work up a load, not just go to max load or even load what someone else told you to load, especially with 9mm major.

 

The dud issue is 99% gonna be a high primer. If the round were too long and it still chambered, most likely it would keep the slide out of battery, and you'd have a dead trigger, pull it and the hammer doesn't drop. If the hammer is dropping, and it isn't going bang, it's a high primer 99% of the time (unless you stored your primer outside in an opened 5 gallon bucket).

 

Op, what is happening with your duds is, the primer is not seated below flush. When the firing pin hits the primer, instead of the primer igniting, the force exerted by the firing just seats the primer deeper into the primer cup. Usually, on a second strike of the primer, it will go off, as the primer is properly seated. 

We don't know what kind of press you are using to reload your ammo (and it would definitely help us to know that!), but, no matter what press it is, you need to pretty much press those primers in just about as hard as you can. 

As for magnum primers, there should be no issue using them or setting them off, if the primers are correctly seated in the brass. 

For your jams, as other have said, the plunk test is key. Take a fired, unsized case. Gently push a bullet head into it, not all the way, but far enough that you know it is still too long. Remove the barrel from the pistol, and drop that unsized bullet into the chamber. It should be too long. Gently press onto the case head until it seats fully into the chamber, then gently remove the bullet and measure the OAL. You may have to do this several times to get an accurate measurement (in fact, you should do it several times regardless). When you have that measurement, subtract 0.010 from it, that figure should be your finished round OAL.

As others have mentioned, CZ's generally have shorter throats than other pistols, and different bullets will have different OAL's, depending on the bullet profile (My Shadow shoots PD 147 FMJ's at 1.150, but MG 115 JHP's at 1.085).

[Squirrel45]

Not to muddy the waters even more, but if you get ahold of Memphis Mechanic on this forum he can rear and lengthen your chamber out. GrumpyOne has gone though in good detail of what you need for equipment, a Chrono is going to be a good $125-$150 investment, especially when working with major loads, again your running unpublished data so you really need to know where your at. Just as a side note, I have been running a Czechmate for two years, it will set off small rifle primers without issue. Last thought just take things slow and read a lot of information on here. 

 

Squirrel 

[Davecoff13]

To the op, as others have said stop! One, I hope you have loading manuals, they will tell you what components (primers) go with the loads. Do not just wing it and try magnum primers just cause you can get em! Second you really should start loading practice ammo until you figure it out and what works or doesn’t work. 

[Youngeyes]

6 hours ago, abtrumpet said:

Ok, great. I will shorten the OAL down. That seems to be a common issue.

Be very careful here. Reducing the OAL will decrease the volume and increase the pressure. It doesn't take much with a 9mm major to step over the line into serious boom territory. As it stands, you are over loaded.  Reduce your load and then you can play with the OAL. GrumpyOne is right on with his post. BTW please take all this advice in the spirit in which it is given. We only want to help. The members here are some of the best people to ask for help. 

[abtrumpet]

Ok, thanks for the advice. I'll ask around at my next match for somebody who can help. You are right, I am in over my head. This is how I approach life in general, however, so it's nothing new for me. However, I recognize that ammo is a bit more of a risky business so I'll approach it more cautiously.

I went out and got a new chrono from Sportsman's so I'll start using it. See, if I didn't come on here and ask and open myself up to the embarrassment of being a newb and and a total idiot, I wouldn't learn! 

Still....gotta learn somehow I guess. 

 

Also, I found some 9mm major for sale from a shop in Florida. I may give it a try and see if I can reverse engineer it.

Edited January 25, 2022 by abtrumpet