Shooting paper only at a match

[Youngeyes]

I've just found out that a match I'm shooting will be paper only. This is an attempt to speed things up. It's faster to tape than to reset steel. It also doesn't need calibration rechecks. I'm not very experienced, but I've seen challenges on shot placement take more time than steel calibration checks. Resetting a popper or plate is very quick. I enjoy the positive feedback of a well shot string of steel. Is steel such a real time waster that it is being eliminated in a level 2 match? Has this been done before and is of proven value? Will this be the new wave of USPSA shooting? I'm just asking as I don't have any real experience with a paper only scenario. Some paper only stages are fine. All of them? Not so much. What say the rest of you on this?

[Sarge]

I think it's in poor taste to call out a match and a hard working MD on their choice of targets for a match.

That being said, it's a little boring, and I certainly wouldn't do it in a level II. But it's not my match and I respect the MD's decision.

I'll be working and shooting the match because, steel or no steel, the crew at BGSL know how to put on a match.

[9x45]

Which match?

[Gary Stevens]

Failed calibrations equals reshoot. That takes time to complete.

A plate that is hit but fails to fall equals reshoot. That takes time to complete.

Back in "the day" matches were paper only until the invention and approval of the pepper popper.

The proof of the pudding is always in the tasting. If the shooters don't like the format, I can almost bet they will let the MD know.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Gary Stevens

[PKT1106]

Could be they need new steel?

Edited September 11, 2015 by PKT1106

[Ultimo-Hombre]

The 3+ matches I get to shoot always include some steel.

I don't think it would speed our matches up any to leave out the steel.

A match without steel is like a steak without a potato. Still awesome but just feels incomplete.

Ok I can think of an instance where steel really slowed things down,

Idaho state match this year had small falling plates, on one stage in particular the RO was calling REF and ordering a reshoot every time a guy dropped the steel by hitting the stand not the plate. Was surprised by how often it happened.

That stage made me think sticking to poppers would be a good idea..

[Flatland Shooter]

I wouldn't mind a few stages with paper only, but an entire match might be a little boring.

That said, I really dislike stages overloaded with steel. A pain to reset and half way through the squad everyone is tuckered out and not really willing to help.

Bill

[bikerburgess]

I guess it would depend on what type of steel they have access to. At L2 and up matches I would avoid plates due to the REF issues. I know some popper designs are more reliable than others and if the design you have is not super reliable at maintaining calibration then I could see avoiding it's use but I would prefer to look to get some that were reliable. I personally have been experimenting with stage designs using steel and paper in ways that still test the shooter but also optimize scoring and resetting time to keep the match flowing and it has worked very well, basically a stage with steel and paper can be set up to score and reset much quicker than a equivalent paper only stage.

[Sarge]

Yes, plates are a PITA.

[davsco]

no steel = boring

[teros135]

I like the "ping" of steel - but then I started out in handgun metallic silhouette (and we hired high school kids to reset the steel at matches).

[Poppa Bear]

A paper only match can still be challenging but I think any major match should include at least some poppers for activation unless they have reliable props set up to handle that task.

In many respects I think paper only can be more challenging. You can see and hear steel,so you know you hit it. Paper does not give you that feedback, so you do not know you have a miss until it is scored.

[PatJones]

If the range is in a particularly windy area, the wind can really cause problems with calibration on steel.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

I guess it would depend on what type of steel they have access to. At L2 and up matches I would avoid plates due to the REF issues. I know some popper designs are more reliable than others and if the design you have is not super reliable at maintaining calibration then I could see avoiding it's use but I would prefer to look to get some that were reliable. I personally have been experimenting with stage designs using steel and paper in ways that still test the shooter but also optimize scoring and resetting time to keep the match flowing and it has worked very well, basically a stage with steel and paper can be set up to score and reset much quicker than a equivalent paper only stage.

This years Columbia cascade match had some of the best use of steel I have seen. In fact the entire match had some of the best technical stages, yet still very fun.

The steel served as some great "speed bumps" but was never a carnival gallery.

[dsa]

I guess it would depend on what type of steel they have access to. At L2 and up matches I would avoid plates due to the REF issues. I know some popper designs are more reliable than others and if the design you have is not super reliable at maintaining calibration then I could see avoiding it's use but I would prefer to look to get some that were reliable. I personally have been experimenting with stage designs using steel and paper in ways that still test the shooter but also optimize scoring and resetting time to keep the match flowing and it has worked very well, basically a stage with steel and paper can be set up to score and reset much quicker than a equivalent paper only stage.

This years Columbia cascade match had some of the best use of steel I have seen. In fact the entire match had some of the best technical stages, yet still very fun.

The steel served as some great "speed bumps" but was never a carnival gallery.

+1, that match was awesome!

[d_striker]

I like shooting matches with steel mixed in...However, steel can create quite a few reshoots when conditions do not cooperate.

As has already been mentioned, steel plates that are hit but don't fall are a REF if the shooter leaves them. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. Plates on stands where the bullet strikes the stand are a REF which can happen often....Just depends on what kind of day it is.

Properly calibrated poppers (especially rearward falling) will often fall on their own when it get's windy. Then when they get set heavy so they don't fall from the wind, you start getting quite a few calibration requests. Especially when there are a lot of people shooting minor PF.

Forward falling poppers inevitably get set heavy by newer shooters from time to time which may lead to a calibration request.

So yeah, I can understand why they are doing a paper match only. I'd still shoot it.

[elguapo]

I think it's in poor taste to call out a match and a hard working MD on their choice of targets for a match.

This

Edited September 11, 2015 by elguapo

[Nik Habicht]

Yes, plates are a PITA.

The same could be said of anything else.......

......right up to the point where we figure out how to manage it appropriately.......

Then again, I thought the sport was about excellence, not catering to the lowest common denominator.........

[Nik Habicht]

I think it's in poor taste to call out a match and a hard working MD on their choice of targets for a match.

This

If he had done that -- identified the match and MD publicly, you might have that something.....

I for one had no clue which match he was talking about until Kevin outed the match.....

[G T]

Was thinking the same thing

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[Corey]

Never know til you try it? I like shooting steel as our local range wont let you use it unless its a "sanctioned" event. So paper only when I got out to practice on my own. Its nice to have steel at matches bc I don't get to see it that often. But, if the stages are good quality, then who knows. May not miss it at all and have a ton of fun.

I don't think anyone is calling anyone else out. The OP was just asking for opinions and if anyone else had shot a paper only match

[elguapo]

He identified the MD to everyone who's signed up for the match. That's enough for me.

To the OP: You should shoot the match first and then express your opinion of how it went. Speculating up front....what's the point?

If you don't like it in the end, well, I guess you can save your travel $ next year.

Edited September 11, 2015 by elguapo

[Nimitz]

I think it's in poor taste to call out a match and a hard working MD on their choice of targets for a match.

This

If he had done that -- identified the match and MD publicly, you might have that something.....

I for one had no clue which match he was talking about until Kevin outed the match.....

exactly ...

[Nimitz]

He identified the MD to everyone who's signed up for the match. That's enough for me.

To the OP: You should shoot the match first and then express your opinion of how it went. Speculating up front....what's the point?

If you don't like it in the end, well, I guess you can save your travel $ next year.

I must be reading a different thread then everyone else ... i don't see where he identified the MD or match ...? Are you saying that Youngeyes is such a well known shooter that all he has to do is say "I'm shooting a match .." and everyone knows what match it is?

Edited September 11, 2015 by Nimitz

[zhunter]

Getting away from which match it is and kinda back to steel, soft soil conditions can make for challenging times with steel.

If I was going to run a L2 or higher match in our area, all poppers would be staked to a large piece of plywood for stability. As a match day progresses down here the rear base digs into the sandy soil and the calibration gets all messed up.