Flatland Shooter

I've been using one for several years now. Works well on hard ground and pine needles but not so good in grass. Most local matches have turned into "lost brass" matches (especially for 9mm) so its only used at the practice range. Lately I've used a Caldwell brass catcher. Initially worried it would be in the way but I quickly adjusted to it. https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Resistant-Convenient-Picatinny-Collection/dp/B00EB5OU0Q/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1542128419&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=caldwell+brass+catcher+ar-15&psc=1

Just found this thread. Memory stages are a definite weak spot so will give this a try. Thanks.

As for Virginia Count, I can take it or leave it. The problem scoring it comes from multiple strings on the same target. Either design the stage with different arrays for each string or score targets between strings.

New newbie record. Ten posts in his first two hours. ?

Sounds like Roger and the staff at the Nationals didn't understand the rules then.

Stage Description: 6 metric targets at 15 yards each spaced 2 yards apart. String 1 - Engage T1 - T6 with one shot each Virginia Count. String 2 - Repeat, engage T1 - T6 with one shot each Virginia Count. Sound about right? Now we have two identical skilled shooters that shoot the stage with all "A" hits. Both have 1.0 sec draws, 0.40 sec transitions and 0.2 sec splits. On string 1 Open shooter "Roy" accidentally double taps the first target followed by one shot each on the remaining targets. String time = 3.2 sec. On string 2 he fails shoot at T-1 but engages the other 5 targets firing only 5 rounds. String time is 2.6 sec. Stage total is 5.8 sec for a 8.620 HF. Our other shooter, "Roger" on String 1 also accidentally double taps the first target and also has a string time of 3.2 sec. On string 2, his "first" shot misses the target but has all his hits on the remaining targets firing six rounds. His string time is 3.0 sec. Stage total is 6.2 sec fo a 8.065 HF. Roy beats Roger on this stage by 6.9%. We can say that Roy did not follow the WSB or we can say the he FTSA the first target, but without a penalty for that action, he gets an unfair advantage over Roger. Of course we have a third shooter that also double taps the first target, then shoots the second string with all hits (extra shot + extra hit) for a 6.452 HF. Roy really beat this guy. Good job Roy.

I respectfully disagree. String 1 already has a procedural for extra shot and if he called his shots, he knows there is a second penalty for the extra hit. Say his splits are 0.20 seconds. If the targets are spread out, his transitions were possibly 0.45 seconds. If the second string was weak hand only, the transition may have been even longer. The extra shot on the first string cost him an extra 0.20 seconds. But not taking the shot on the target on the second string saved him a transition and 0.45 seconds for a net time savings of 0.25 seconds on the combined time for the two strings. I believe the reason for stacking and FTSA rules is without those procedurals the shooter can unfairly save a few tenths of seconds. Without the penalty, the shooter will get an unfair advantage. FWIW, I personally would shoot each string as I felt it should be shot. If I made an extra shot fired on the first string, I would take the procedural since I earned .it On the second string, I would shoot all targets as called for in the COF, make the shot and get hit with another earned procedural for the extra hit. Most likely I could have thrown a shot and intentionally missed the offended target. The RO would probably never notice it and if he did, probably not call it. But I'm just not wired that way.

Was this taken to arbitration? How did that work out? What Rules were cited? (Does "FTSA" mean "Failure to shoot at"?) If in the 2nd string he put a round past the target and into the berm, do you think they still would have given him the "FTSA" procedural?

If you are shooting a classifier where you are seated and your gun is holstered like CM 99-02, then drawing while rising from the chair like rowdyb recommends might be faster. On CM 99-33, your targets are partially obscured while sitting so getting out of the chair as quickly as possible is probably your best move. On classifiers like CM 13-07, CM 09-07, CM 08-13, CM 13-05 and CM 09-03 where the start position has your gun on the table, as long as all targets are visible from a seated position, I stay seated. Time taken to stand is time wasted. Its time to start practicing shooting while sitting (especially before your knees start to go). ?

Wow! One heck of a video. Very nice shooting young sir.

Its a Virginia Count stage. One procedural for the extra shot on string 1 (Rule 9.4.5.1) plus one procedural for the extra hit (Rule 9.4.5.2) plus a third procedural for fewer shots taken than specified in any string. (Rule 9.4.5.3) if the targets were scored between strings. In a Virginia Count Course of Fire or a Fixed Time Course of Fire: 9.4.5.1 Extra shots (i.e. shots fired in excess of the number specified in a component string or stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Additionally, during scoring, no more than the specified number and highest scoring hits will be awarded. 9.4.5.2 Extra hits (i.e. hits on the scoring area of scoring paper targets in excess of the total number specified in the stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Note that hits on hard cover and/or no-shoots are not treated as Extra Hits. 9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. As long as the targets were not scored between strings, the shooter could have saved himself two procedurals by putting one round into the back berm (missed the target) on the second string. Sufficient shots were fired in each string, all targets had the correct number of hits and just one procedural for the extra shot fired.

I use the same one. Note that unless they have changed a bit in the last few years, they do not work well with the side charging uppers.

Late last year I purchased a complete 9mm upper from PSA that was hard to lock back. It does not have LRBHO. If I manually pushed in on the bottom of the bolt catch it would sometimes hold. All it took was a slight shake and the bolt would drop. Sent back to the manufacturer and they fixed it. Still do not know what they changed but no further problems.

I have no problems with new and unusual start positions as long as it can be done safely by the competitors. If the match director wants lots of prone shooting, hard leans, and even a few “circus” things, more power to them. But only as long as they can be done safely. And if the match starts to die off when shooters don’t return, so be it. (Side note: I’m a super senior that after several years stopped attending one of the local matches. I didn’t change much but new management decided neat things like multiple prone positions on half the stages would be the norm. It was no longer a fun event for me. Like some others, I’ve found better ways to entertain myself that weekend.)

I shoot fast splits. When do I get all the chicks?