3 gun sucking away uspsa shooters?

[whitedog]

Heck. I'm watching britanusa's videos twice a day. If done right, I would surely watch a pistol show. Wonder why USPSA is not more media friendly?

[Jim Watson]

Back in the stone age of the 1990s, I thought three gun was a lot of fun. Then there were no gun transitions, you had a rifle stage, a pistol stage, or a shotgun stage. When the idea of more than one gun on the same field came along, they called it multi-gun.

I am older and less agile these days and less interested in humping all that gear around.

But our little IDPA club has followed suit with the next nearest IDPA club and added 3GN.

The nearest USPSA club has gone from one USPSA match and one Steel Challenge match a month to alternating the steel with three gun.

The bigger range next in combat radius for me has had straight carbine matches for some time, I think they will be the next three gun or 3GN customer.

Me? I have my old 1100 Slug with Easyloader in the shop to refurbish from fire damage and was wondering if my old Pro Point on its ski jump mount would light up if I gave it a new battery.

It might amount to something.

[Solvability]

Jim, I look forward to seeing you out there - I am old and broken down and it is a good way to stretch and get some exercise - sometimes I beat the kids.

I have an extension tube for my 1100 you are welcome to borrow.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Solvability

[Nik Habicht]

The Mid-Atlantic Section lost two clubs to 3-gun matches in the last couple of years......

Club competitors at both venues were more interested in multi-gun......

[Dustbuster1]

I think its great that 3gun caters to diff ages and skill levels w no bs.I enjoy shooting without listening to whining and safe queen huggers.for getttin down and dirty w accuracy its a blast.the prize table is a huge plus.....love it and thank u sponsors<br /><br />Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4<br /><br />

[Seth]

Ebb and flood. Been a lot if years of uspsa domination. But our prize tables have dried up and folks are trying something different.

IMO Multigun is expensive which will catch up with it eventually and ammo issues will continue to be a deterent.

[a matt]

That picture is a prize table at a 3 gun shoot? Wow. I've never seen anything like that. A huge thank you to the sponsors that made that happen.

Media Coverage goes a very long way in getting sponsors, a very long way

and 3gun Nation has done a excellent job of making a very watchable show and format for sponsors to be a part of

Hello USPSA

the excuse of nobody will watch people shooting a stage it is not good tv.......3gn has been able to take guys laying down and shooting 300-600 yard targets and make it work.

It is about the people that shoot it, what they are doing.

With cameras set up right a pistol stage can be exciting to watch, USPSA is just stuck in 1990's when it comes to advertising, promotions, and use of technology and they are getting passed up

Thank you Jake!!

[Chaser_2332]

I have to say I started with IDPA, shot a few USPSA matches, then shot a 3 gun match. If I had my choice I would choose 3 gun all the way

[cajunautoxer]

The prize table at 3 gun looks like walmart for shooters...morenguns more fun<br /><br />Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4<br /><br />

Yes they do. FNH 3 Gun Championship this past week. 148 guns to give away for all divisions. This pic is just the first two tables of Tac Optics. There were about 74 long guns there alone.

So I've never made it to a large match before and was wondering something. So say the tables in the pic are for Tac Ops. How does it break down for the people in that class? Is there a set amount for the Pros and then some for the regular Joes ect?

[MarkCO]

Order of finish in your division is the most common. Table per division.

[Rob01]

Yup order of finish as it should be.

[CraigS.]

I think that pic of the FNH prize table has motivated a few pistol shooters who were on the fence.

[MarkCO]

It's not just pistol shooters, we have seen new 3Gun competitors from numerous other shooting sports as well. Also, there are pistol and rimfire matches with great prize tables as well, just takes a person to run it right and put their effort into it. One of the past candidates for USPSA president does the prize tables for 4 or 5 major matches a year and gets great prize tables becasue he is very good to sponsors. With 2 months effort, I was able to put an average of $320/shooter on the prize table for the Ruger Rimfire Worlds, many of those sponsors sponsored their first match ever. It is all about marketing. When MDs actively promote their sponsors, the ROI is more appealing, a formula most 3Gun MDs follow. As a company that does put quite a bit of product on prize tables, I can tell you firsthand what sponsoring different types of matches does.

[Bryan 45]

I'm disappointed that the prize table is of such high importance to so many. Am I the only one that still shoots just because I love the game? I'd shoot 3 gun even if there were no scores.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Bryan 45

[JakeMartens]

List of Sponsor for the USPSA Nationals

*Title Match Sponsor*
STI

*Gold Match Series Sponsor*
EAA
Glock

*Silver Match Sponsor*
Springfield

*Bronze Match Sponsor*
ProMag Industries
Trijicon
Brownells
Safariland
NSSF
C-More
Nitro Ear

*Stage Match Sponsor*
Hogue
Safariland
Berry's Manufacturing
Montana Gold Bullets (2 Stages)
Montana Gold Bullets
Ibejiheads Coated Bullets
Cameron's Custom Guns
Speed Shooters International
CR Speed
Red Dot Shooting
Precision Delta
Wilson Combat
Millennium Custom
Sig Sauer
Starline Brass
Dawson Precision

*Donor Sponsor*
FNH
Shooters Source
Truck Vault
Target Barns
Atlanta Arms & Ammo
Warne Scope Mount
Blade Tech

*OFFICIAL CHRONOGRAPH SPONSOR*
CED - Competitive Edge Dynamics

*OFFICIAL TARGET SPONSOR*
Target Barn

List of Sponsor for the FNH 3gun match

MATCH Sponsor

FNH USA

PLATINUM Sponsor

Adams Arms

GOLD Sponsor

Colt

Vertx

Vortex Optics

SILVER Sponsor

Freedom Munitions

Predator Tactical

BRONZE Sponsor

MGM Targets

DPMS Panther Arms

Lancer Systems

Surefire

Colt Competition Rifle

C-More Systems

Barrett

FireClean

Swarovski Optik

Leupold

Seekins Precision

Magpul

Sport Ear

Beretta

Barnes Precision Machine

STAGE Sponsor

Warne Scope Mounts

Bushmaster

Sierra Bullets

Safariland

Hornady

Daniel Defense

Brownells

Kimber

Mossberg

Bolle' Tactical

Timney Triggers

Bushnell

Associate

Costa Del Mar

DONOR

Trijicon

Primary Weapons Systems

X-Treme Bullets

CONTRIBUTOR

XRAIL

Stag Arms

Crimson Trace

Hiperfire

Patriot Cases

FRIENDS

Tactical Solutions

Hi Viz Shooting Systems

Otis Technology

Spyderco

Hogue Grips

The Shooters Source

Dillon Precision

Special Sponsors

Staff Dinner Sponsor
Black Rain Ordnance

Staff Lunches Sponsor
Adams Arms

Awards Banquet Sponsor
Samson Manufacturing

NSSF - National Shooting Sports Foundation

[Vlad]

I'm disappointed that the prize table is of such high importance to so many. Am I the only one that still shoots just because I love the game? I'd shoot 3 gun even if there were no scores.

Sure, but given two matches of equal quality on the same weekend do you pick the one with no scores or the one with stuff on a table?

[Bryan 45]

I'm disappointed that the prize table is of such high importance to so many. Am I the only one that still shoots just because I love the game? I'd shoot 3 gun even if there were no scores.

Sure, but given two matches of equal quality on the same weekend do you pick the one with no scores or the one with stuff on a table?

Easy, I'd pick the one that offered the most challenge to my skill level.

[Vlad]

I'm disappointed that the prize table is of such high importance to so many. Am I the only one that still shoots just because I love the game? I'd shoot 3 gun even if there were no scores.

Sure, but given two matches of equal quality on the same weekend do you pick the one with no scores or the one with stuff on a table?

Easy, I'd pick the one that offered the most challenge to my skill level.

Well, the good news is that in my case, everything is challenging

Tbh, it shoot FNH for flattened bottle caps, it is a very good match.

[Seth Long]

I need a good reason to spend hundreds of dollars to shoot a match. I can shoot a local USPSA match every weekend of the month and shoot 2 guns and get 10 stages in. I can shoot 3 gun locally a few times a year. Explain to me why i should drive hours out of my way and pay all that money for a chance at nothing? Maybe others have that kind of money and vacation time to burn, not this guy.

If you offer me a match with a payout or one without, im going to the one that pays out. Its not like im going to win anything, but the chance is there.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Seth Long

[Dustbuster1]

I need a good reason to spend hundreds of dollars to shoot a match. I can shoot a local USPSA match every weekend of the month and shoot 2 guns and get 10 stages in. I can shoot 3 gun locally a few times a year. Explain to me why i should drive hours out of my way and pay all that money for a chance at nothing? Maybe others have that kind of money and vacation time to burn, not this guy.

If you offer me a match with a payout or one without, im going to the one that pays out. Its not like im going to win anything, but the chance is there.

I feel the same way. I had a hobby where I spent thousands on machines and equipment. When we had events the sanctioned competition would give winners wood. The fun events they had gave away machines radios fuel and more. It was a better feeling driving 400 plus miles to attend an event where I had a chance of winning something,breaking even or getting something I couldn't normally buy. It also said a lot about the sponsors that made prizes available. U can bet your ass I would support a contributing sponsor versus a co that didn't care much for marketing to appreciative users. Rock on 3 gun and everyone in it !!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 of course it ate my spelling.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Dustbuster1

[59Bassman]

I'm also not in favor of large prize tables as being the draw for a match.

I watched this almost 20 years ago in Sporting Clays. Tournaments began advertizing how deep they paid out, how many guns were being given away, etc. Those tournaments started having more problems with "chippers" - the "I saw a chip!" cheaters. Its amazing how the chance at winning a $600 shotgun will cause some folks to do things you wouldn't expect from them. Note that I have not yet shot any major matches in 3 gun - so I am not stating that this is going on.

The other issue as a lower class shooter is the feeling that I'm nothing more than cannon fodder at the match. The MD needs more attendees so they can afford a bigger prize table - one that will likely have two trucker hats and a T-shirt left by the time I get to walk up there. Again, going back to my SC days, there were a couple of sponsored shooters who actually said that high match fees (that paid back a multiple for the top shooters) were a tax on low-classed shooters for the "privilege" of shooting with the top dogs. I've had a hard time with strict order-of-finish payouts since then.

I don't have a problem with random drawings, and maybe 3-gun match sponsorships are allowing it to be done differently without putting the "burden" on the lower-classed shooters.

This is all the perspective of a lower-class shooter who watched high prize tables really cause some serious division in another shooting discipline.

[retarmyaviator]

That is why I give them the "privilege" of having these matches without the benefit of doing so with any of my money. I can have just as much fun shooting in local matches. For the money I would P away attending one of these high dollar matches I could buy what ever I wanted off the prize table and come out ahead.

Again, going back to my SC days, there were a couple of sponsored shooters who actually said that high match fees (that paid back a multiple for the top shooters) were a tax on low-classed shooters for the "privilege" of shooting with the top dogs. I've had a hard time with strict order-of-finish payouts since then.

[davehorn]

I don't think the prize tables are as important as they're being made out to be, but I think they add to the overall experience. I'm still pretty new to 3 Gun, never finished higher than 40th at major and I've always left with some cool gear. So yeah I finish shooting the match feeling like I got my teeth kicked in, but then go to the prize table and still get something pretty cool, it really enhances the total experience. I love the competition and additional creativity required in 3 gun, but I'm not really good at it, so getting a couple hundred bucks worth of gear softens the blow when you see your name at #100+.

[Seth Long]

I watched this almost 20 years ago in Sporting Clays. Tournaments began advertizing how deep they paid out, how many guns were being given away, etc. Those tournaments started having more problems with "chippers" - the "I saw a chip!" cheaters. Its amazing how the chance at winning a $600 shotgun will cause some folks to do things you wouldn't expect from them. Note that I have not yet shot any major matches in 3 gun - so I am not stating that this is going on.

Cheating happens regardless. If someone is going to cheat I don't believe it matters if their are payouts or not, that is their character. I saw a lot of the, "Ops, I pasted that thought you scored it.", when a buddy had a bad run at a major match this year. I don't see much of it at all at the local level, and you really don't hear about it in the bigger matches unless you hang out with the RM all day and see all the calls he gets for that garbage. I also see sandbagging on classifiers, and showing up and shooting out of your normal division because your a class lower. Its pretty obvious when you know what someone shoots all the time, then they show up at a big match sporting different gear.

And for the low level shooters not getting anything. That's why USPSA has classes. No reason you can't award some cool shit to 1-3 D class if the division has enough competitors to justify it. I think I said this earlier, but back when York was running USPSA I won a pretty solid cash payout for winning C class in production. That was cool and we returned until they stopped there program.

[Rob01]

I don't have a problem with random drawings, and maybe 3-gun match sponsorships are allowing it to be done differently without putting the "burden" on the lower-classed shooters.

I do. I come from a precision rifle/sniper match background and there was one match where they would allow self scoring and raffle prizes. Guess what? Cheating ran rampant! I came in second on more than one occasion and would go home with a crappy prize and no trophy because the guy who "won" pencil whipped his score sheet. And yes I have proof as more people than just me and my team mates saw it. People got called out but the people running the match wore blinders and to this day still don't score the match and guess what? A friend went and shot it for his first time and came back and said he watched people cheat. So cheating has nothing to do with prize tables. It has to do with weak minded people who use matches to gauge their worth. I came in 94th at FNH and was happy with the field that was there. It doesn't define me as a person. It shows me I have more work to do to get better.

As to raffling prizes, it's like government entitlements. No you don't have to work and earn the prize. Just be lucky. BS. If you want something better then get your ass out and work hard and master the sport.