3 gun sucking away uspsa shooters?

[Olivers_AR]

Recent fnh 3-g match last week had a prize table of $270K. Even last place walked away with $250 in prizes or certs. 70+ guns given away.

Noticed USPSA attendance at the local matches is down, it could be ammo, it could be priorities or it could be the economy.

[Religious Shooter]

I would say it is sipping or licking away shooters from USPSA.

Sucking... no way.

[outerlimits]

I am trading 6-8 big pistol matches next year for 4-5 big 3 gun matches.

I really liked the two 3 gun matches that I have been to and I feel like there is plenty of room to shine over there. From what I have seen, the good 3 gunners have a weakness when it comes to pistol. I have the pistol part down pretty good, so I am going to work on the other two and hopefully kick some butt over there next year.

I suck at pistol. Looking forward to the next 3 gun match so you can show me how to shoot pistol.

[bigfish]

If I have to choose between uspsa and 3 gun match I shoot uspsa just because I can get in and shoot the match faster and get out and still have part of the day left to do something else. If I have to choose between IDPA and 3 gun then I will shoot 3 gun. Guess that might be why I have only shot 2 IDPA matches so far this year.

[Neomet]

At the risk of being redundant, yes. Two of my friends who have largely become 3 gunners lent me a shottie and I have shot 4 matches. The hook as they say is set and it has nothing to do with money given my skill sets. It is just plain fun. Maybe because it is new, time willj tell.

[bpipe95]

More laid back, more challenging at times, way fewer stupid rules and no bullcrap "power factor".

No wonder its pulling shooters away.

[a matt]

Sounding like USPSA (pistol) needs to step it up some, before we end up with only 3G? Just my .02 cents. With that said what can the USPSA do to get, keep maybe bring some pistol shooters back? Good guestion ?????

Edited September 25, 2013 by a matt

[mpeltier]

It did me. Shot my first 3-gun in 2001 and have hardly attended a USPSA pistol match scince then. The few ive attended left me with a stronger fondness of outlaw 3-gun.

Edited September 25, 2013 by mpeltier

[justaute]

Step up? Definitely should.

However, how does USPSA step up when its current standing is not even adequate? Just look at the organizational support for Production Nationals.

I started shooting USPSA 2.5 years go, which is just after I shot my first pistol. I got hooked. Fast-forward to today, I am quite disappointed with the trajectory of USPSA as an organization. Fortunately, I'm sufficiently healthy to play several other sports and still compete at a relatively high level. If things don't improve, I'll just allocate more time/money/effort to those other sports.

As someone who has significant management experience in corporate operations, restructuring, and investment, my assessment of USPSA is, well, that it leaves a lot to be desired.

Sounding like USPSA (pistol) needs to step it up some, before we end up with only 3G? Just my .02 cents. With that said what can the USPSA do to get, keep maybe bring some pistol shooters back? Good guestion ?????

Edited September 25, 2013 by justaute

[Airedale]

Pistol matches have become boring. I've only shot a handful this year.

3 gun is more fun and interesting. Prize table has nothing to do with it (for me). If you shoot for prize table return, you may want to check your math-it's cheaper to stay home.

I shoot less matches with 3 gun than pistol and enjoy it more. I look forward to 3 gun matches.

Dave

[Jim Norman]

Local USPSA is fine, we build locally USPSA Matches that are as challenging as any major. 3Gun, we travel to as we can't duplicate the challenges at home. So, Locally USPSA is good, but if there is a 3GUn on a good range or a bigger 3gun we travel. Both are good, it is a matter of quality.

[Vlad]

Well the one thing that USPSA matches have going for them is that they require a lot less range then a 3 gun match. USPSA pistol matches require less props, less distance, less berms, less club or range buy in, etc. Basically it is a lot easier to get a USPSA match going and keep it running then a 3gun match.

I've been considering changing the monthly USPSA pistol match I run to some form of multigun and the first two big problems that might be impossible to solve is convincing the club to let me shoot rifles in the pistol pits (which would be fine, the berms are very good) and figuring out how to use the short pits in interesting ways as I'm pretty sure the club won't let me use more of the range then I already do.

Basically, at the local level, 3gun is a lot harder to get going.

[Bryan 45]

Of course, we've had a few shooters come over from USPSA that we'd be glad to give back!

Edited September 25, 2013 by Bryan 45

[beltjones]

I think 3-Gun is interesting in that it disproves a big thing thought to be essential to attracting new members. "Shoot the gun you brought" or "Shoot what you carry" or, basically, the idea that we need to lower the cost of participation to attract new members has been blown out of the water by 3-Gun. Heck, that idea has been blown out of the water by Production Division in USPSA, which is the only division with an arms race, and it's the fastest growing division by far. 3-Gun of course requires investment in a dedicated pistol, shotgun, and carbine - not to mention a crap load of range bags and some kind of cart to haul it all around - and their membership is exploding.

I think there are a few reasons. One, USPSA relies almost exclusively on local clubs to do all of the marketing to new shooters, while the head office only deals with existing members. That's a mistake. The other reasons are all immediately evident when comparing any major 3-Gun event to USPSA Multi-Gun Nationals. My understanding is that Multi-Gun Nats attracts fewer shooters, has a worse prize table, and has less media coverage than pretty much any 3-Gun Nation event or even most outlaw matches.

My "solution" isn't to make Multi-Gun Nats better. If I were in charge I would study why Multi-Gun Nats is so bad (comparatively), and apply those fixes to USPSA as a whole. No one is going to do that, though, while they're still struggling with getting squadding ready for a nationals event that is only 3 weeks away, and they can't figure out why the membership is annoyed that they put off a classification update until after another nationals is over.

[Dan Sierpina]

Of course, we've had a few shooters come over from USPSA that we'd be glad to give back!

I second that opinion!!!

[Strick]

When did 3-gun really seem to "explode"? I would say it was a few years ago when it showed up on TV where the casual shooter could see it on a regular channel and not tucked away at some odd ball time.

What is kinda funny is I remember a thread not long ago about making USPSA more mainstream or something like that. The basic feeling I got was that many here didn't want that and wanted to keep the "unwashed masses" out of USPSA. Now we are talking about 3-gun sucking shooters away..........I wonder why???

[MarkCO]

If you go read a few threads on "hand start position" and "can I empty the ammo can before the start" and such, you may see one of the reasons some more "common-sense" type folks get pulled to 3Gun where the tomfoolery is much less prevalent.

[a matt]

I agree with that. Spend more time on the shooting and less on if my fingers are interlocked or whatever.

Edited September 25, 2013 by a matt

[hitman]

Short answer, yes it is.

Long answer is, it really depends on where you are in the country.

In my area there are several 3 gun matches, mostly on Sat while USPSA is Sunday.

Several of the 3 gun matches have quit advertising them due to what I call burn out, I am seeing the same thing in USPSA.

A small group is doing all the work, people show up stand around watching them set up then shoot and scoot.

[Airedale]

If you go read a few threads on "hand start position" and "can I empty the ammo can before the start" and such, you may see one of the reasons some more "common-sense" type folks get pulled to 3Gun where the tomfoolery is much less prevalent.

When I posted my initial response, this is exactly what I was thinking. Well stated.

Dave

[MarkCO]

Well the one thing that USPSA matches have going for them is that they require a lot less range then a 3 gun match. USPSA pistol matches require less props, less distance, less berms, less club or range buy in, etc. Basically it is a lot easier to get a USPSA match going and keep it running then a 3gun match.

I've been considering changing the monthly USPSA pistol match I run to some form of multigun and the first two big problems that might be impossible to solve is convincing the club to let me shoot rifles in the pistol pits (which would be fine, the berms are very good) and figuring out how to use the short pits in interesting ways as I'm pretty sure the club won't let me use more of the range then I already do.

Basically, at the local level, 3gun is a lot harder to get going.

I disagree. I've run majors and run both USPSA pistol and 3Gun locally. I get more help for set-up at every match we run than the USPSA pidtol match, which still has a slight edge on shooter numbers. Any USPSA pistol stage can be shot with pistol/rifle. Add some steel and or clays, and you are on to 3Gun. Most of the local 3Gun matches we have run have been in pistol berms. Some of the most challenging 3Gun stages I have seen have been in the pistol berms. Also, the short courses are somewhat beneficial to the new shooters with an M4 and a CCW pistol.

A few weeks ago, I ran a 3Gun match with steel and paper. We had 4 USPSA pistol shooters show up and shoot the entire match with their USPSA pistol. Just takes some imagination.

[waynes_world_45]

Cant afford 3-gun when the rifle round count gets high

[Seth Long]

I enjoy 3 gun shooting but am not a huge fan. Simply too much crap has to come out of my gun room and it feels like a chore. I'm more apt to shoot a Shotgun only or Rifle only match then I am a 3 gun. Still, if it came down to a USPSA match or 3 gun, i'd be shooting USPSA.

But I do agree the "Tom Foolery" in USPSA could stop anytime now. I enjoy unique challenges in a stage, but not stupid stuff that adds nothing to the challenge.

[MarkCO]

I do agree 3G is expensive, and it is not for everyone.

[steviesterno]

i think it's a great compliment. I was almost only shooting 3 gun for the last 3 years, and actually tailored my USPSA matches to train for that. I run 40 minor because I have the fancy 40 for USPSA, so I would just put 2 on paper. Almost always won stage times, but not with C-D hits. 3 gun is a ton of work, lots of prep, lots of gear to get ready, and a lot of skills to master. I can get beat at steel challenge stage who has a slightly better draw time than I do, but in 3 gun I might have the chance to catch up with some sprints, 400+ yard shots, reloading a shotgun, or working all 3 guns to the best of my ability. It's a pile of fun, and now that we can get ammo again I'll be back into it.

Sometimes all that gear carrying and loading gets old, so I'll go shoot a pistol or something match. To have just a maxpedition bag instead of a tactical stroller feels weird.

The prize table certainly helps. ROs are rewarded for their time and effort, and shooters get a chance to see cool stuff and walk with some swag, almost no matter what.

I ROed the FNH match, and walked with $300 plus worth of fun gear, some food, and a half priced hotel room, all for helping out. Then the prize table was sick! the free aimpoint I got allowed me to try gear I wouldn't have otherwise, and has made me a lifelong believer in that one brand. Wouldn't have had that chance with another event.