kgunz11 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 It would take some ignorant folks to mess with that group. Do they not know the terror that would rain down on them? Did they not learn anything from 9/11?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Ohio native Bob Vogel is going ... representing the USA on the Production team, and he's pretty good too. Can he win ? Yes, he can win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 OK, I have not read this whole thread, so i am not sure if it has been posted, but....Who would want to go to a primarily muslim country that has a history of terrorism? You mean, like Egypt? That place is cool. I'd go back in a minute. Same for Israel and Colombia. Even in 'those' places, the risk of terrorism is still vanishingly small compared to all the other risks you run on a daily basis. Shred You make a good point, but I would feel safer in Egypt that Bali Really! Having been to both Bali has a very marginal edge on the "feeling safe" scale but then 25 million people in Cairo can be a bit overwheming. Ya, sorry about this Z, but this is showing your fear of the unknown. Egypt has less of that fear factor because we constantly see images of Egypt, where Bali is fairly unknown. Most of the modern day terrorism theology started in Egypt with an organization called the Muslim Brothers back in the 50's. Since then, it has spread live a virus. Only within the recent post 9/11 attacks have we seen a transnational terrororism migration of Al Qaeda to Bali, and in fairly few numbers. The country has had it's problems, but theology wise the muslim culture there has not embrace the core terrorist values of wahabism, salifism, and suni hambali as stongly as we have seen in the middle-east. Don't get me wrong, it's still fairly unstable in certain parts of the islands, but in many parts it's safe. The same can be said for Egypt, but you will see a much higher percentage embracing hate there. Ultimately, it really comes down to how stable the government is of a country and how well its law enforcement is at maintaining security to prevent acts and how well they react to acts after the fact the affect the US's Dept of State's read on the safety in a country. I suspect there will be very little to worry about at the World Shoot in the way of security. IPSC is fairly obscure for a world sporting event. In my opinion, the biggest threat would be the average criminal element that one could find in any country, the second threat would be kidnapping, and the third would be a terrorist event. Let's face it, the average american would not know who TGO, TJ, or Sevigny was. I doubt the average or above average criminal would either. Go to the world shoot and have fun. Take basic precautionary measures, and don't walk around mouth-breathing. Change your routes regularly, pay attention to where you are and who is around you. Don't walk around 'freaked out', but walk around with confidence and make eye contact with people who appear to be taking too much notice of you. Make sure someone not traveling with you knows you should be checking in with them after getting to a destination or a specific time. Then, make those contacts at the specified time. Travel in groups of no less than 3 and no more than 5. Have the emergency numbers for the local police, US Embassy, and a translator if needed (there is usually someone at the hotel that you can use as a translator or go-between in a case of emergency). Know WHERE the nearest friendly country Embassy or Consulate is located and also where the nearest US Embassy or Consulate is located. These are just little ways to make yourself a hard target. Sorry folks, but it's just BALI... It's not Iran or North Korea. I have personally walked around almost all of the middle eastern countries and survived. Most of those I have done it without a firearm and body-armor. Other than war zones, the scariest place in most of the USA and 21 countries has been Jedda, Saudi Arabia (still during Desert Shield), 30 minutes from Mecca and I survived two weeks there without any military instillation or security of any kind. 2nd scariest place was probably CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I am going to go ahead and add SA Friday's advice on how to travel around in unfamiliar/nonsecure territory as further explanation of why I will stay home. I am not one to normally avoid a confrontation or fight, but I just wanna concentrate on the match and shoot when I go to these things? I would say this dead horse has been beaten severely! Those who are going on the US team are top notch, make no mistake. I am sure they are going to kick some ass, no offense everyone else! Maybe I am not going because I am afraid they will beat me loud! Flex baby, let's start on that one for a while. Besides, who says the guys not going would be the best ones to send anyway? Do not down play the ammo thing both in Ecuador or Bali. It was a major issue then and will be again. Let's not act like it did not happen. It did and regardless of why it happened, we are again going to a venue where the problem of getting your kit there remains a problem. Question for thought. How many out there think it would be easier to get ammo that would be suitable for their needs for this match in Bali than other regions of IPSC? I am willing to bet you could buy the ammo cheaper in the US or Canada for instance, than the components would cost anywhere else. We need the match where everyone can compete fairly. Just my thoughts, but I am getting old and senile. And so am I. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Maybe I am not going because I am afraid they will beat me loud! Rob Major thread drift.......... OOOOHHHHH! you really winged that thing !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stats770 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 It's too bad Max Michel Jr. isn't going and taking a group of his Ranger friends. Actually it looks like he is ...... From the U.S. Army I see Max Michel, KC Eusebio, Travis Tomasie, Daniel Horner, Lee Dimaculangan, and Brad Balsey. Ooo-ra! Well done boys! Cannot wait to meet any IPSC shooters from ANYWHERE who come to Bali. I am lucky enough to be going to the match, putting my money up for a slot and getting one. Living in Australia, with the world shoot being so close I could not conscience NOT attending, even turning down a business trip to the States to go. As far as security is concerned, I'll take my chances. If I change my descisions based on what terrorists might do, they win in my mind. This, however, will not make me condemn anyone else for not wanting to attend. No-one here in this forum has based their descision to attend or not solely on security, I understand the distance/expense factor (I went to Ecuador) and took chances there with my own ammo (the Australian Team Manager organised an ammunition frieght for anyone that wanted it & it actually made it!) so empathise with everyone. I love this sport and love everyone who participates in it. And no, I am not drunk (yet ) See you in Bali! (I'll be the short, dribbling Aussie, with an IPSC shirt on!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 We all know having our own ammo with us at matches is the smart thing to do. We've known about the World Shoot for at least 2-3 (??) years. We know airlines won't allow anyone to carry more than 11lbs (??) as a passenger but that's not enough allowance. Can someone explain to me why USPSA didn't organize to ship everyone's personal ammo in advance? Even if we shipped next week it would still get to Bali in plenty of time. If we need special permission from the government, there's been plenty of time to apply. Explain this to me like I'm a 2 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Why didn't you step up to the plate and offer to organize this? Until a few months ago no one was sure who was going, a few months earlier than that we didn't even have a set date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Why didn't you step up to the plate and offer to organize this? We have a BOD and an office full of people at Sedro who are supposed to serve member's needs and you want to make this about me?? I'm not going to Bali but +50 others are including the President. Why don't you ask all of the above? I asked a legitimate question and you want to make it personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 i wonder if any of the "peanut gallery" that are waxing philosphical like on this thread about how none of the "top" shooters are going to the W.S. have taken into account just how rude and disrespectful they are to the people who are actually going to be on the U.S. World Shoot team? haven't really kept up with this whole evolution, but i do know that one of our central fla. homeboys SmittyFL, Shannon Smith is going, and he ain't no slouch, so...... i gotta say, i think this thread if pretty lame....... kinda like the barry bonds steriod controversy of practical shooting. if you ain't hittin', whatta you got to say? I agree, we are sending a good team. I was just stating I would not be waiting in line to go to Bali again. Yeah, I have done quite a few of the middle eastern countries too, doesn't mean I want to go back. I am sure our team will kick a$$ over there!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Just FYI. IPSC Italy has arranged a freight shipping for ammo of all italian competitors attending the WS that would have requested it (about 50 local competitors will attend the WS). AFAIK, every competitor was allowed to ship through IPSC Italy freighter up to 1'000 home reloaded ammo, that will be shipped by the end of this month and will be stored in Bali for competitors to pick it up. We had to work this out through a local well known major gunshop whose owner is in possession of an import/export license for guns and ammo. I don't know about the costs of this, but I just want to prove it can be done, provided you are willing to do it and work your plans well in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) What have i started ? Edit : French contingent has gone the same way as Italian shooters. Ammo collected, packaged and will be sent to Bali in early september. Edited August 13, 2008 by Julien Boit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) The beauty of the human race, the bane of the conceited is the fact that at any given time there is someone out there who can beat anyone at anything. But dang TGO you always made such great copy! Those that aren't going this year, to a lesser degree we all have felt your pain, you owe no explanations and we'll meet again and you can kick our collective butts. Though I'll try not to let it happen . Those that are going, buddy we are rooting for you. You're the cream of the crop and the apple of our eyes. You've earned your shot, make the most of it. Edited August 13, 2008 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBudd Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Take "basic precautionary measures, and don't walk around mouth-breathing. Change your routes regularly, pay attention to where you are and who is around you. Don't walk around 'freaked out', but walk around with confidence and make eye contact with people who appear to be taking too much notice of you. Make sure someone not traveling with you knows you should be checking in with them after getting to a destination or a specific time. Then, make those contacts at the specified time. Travel in groups of no less than 3 and no more than 5. Have the emergency numbers for the local police, US Embassy, and a translator if needed (there is usually someone at the hotel that you can use as a translator or go-between in a case of emergency). Know WHERE the nearest friendly country Embassy or Consulate is located and also where the nearest US Embassy or Consulate is located. These are just little ways to make yourself a hard target. " I don't know.... doesn't sound like much of a vacation to me/ At the point I need to worry about all of the above, I'll just stay home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 anyone notice the "jet" is back-on the philippine team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 anyone notice the "jet" is back-on the philippine team? Rumor has it he (the Phillipino team) may make an appearance at the Open Nats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Take "basic precautionary measures, and don't walk around mouth-breathing. Change your routes regularly, pay attention to where you are and who is around you. Don't walk around 'freaked out', but walk around with confidence and make eye contact with people who appear to be taking too much notice of you. Make sure someone not traveling with you knows you should be checking in with them after getting to a destination or a specific time. Then, make those contacts at the specified time. Travel in groups of no less than 3 and no more than 5. Have the emergency numbers for the local police, US Embassy, and a translator if needed (there is usually someone at the hotel that you can use as a translator or go-between in a case of emergency). Know WHERE the nearest friendly country Embassy or Consulate is located and also where the nearest US Embassy or Consulate is located. These are just little ways to make yourself a hard target. "I don't know.... doesn't sound like much of a vacation to me/ At the point I need to worry about all of the above, I'll just stay home. I've basically done this for the most part in every foreign country I've been to except England and Greenland. England is right-left-right before crossing, BTW. The other way doesn't work so well.... Greenland is so isolated it just didn't matter... I don't know, maybe I'm just used to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I've travelled enough to know that there is no such place as 'safe' just varying degrees of 'unsafe'. Everything SA Friday says is bang on the money, especially the right/left/right thing when crossing roads in England. In fact in London it's actually written on the road, "Look Right". I am certain that the US Team is going to do great things in Bali. I am sure there will be ammo issues somewhere, but hopefully everyone will have shipped over their ammo in advance (may it all arrive intact). Here's to a USA World Shoot in 2011, with TGO and Jerry and about 2000 other US competitors screaming to be on the waiting-list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I am certain that the US Team is going to do great things in Bali. I am sure there will be ammo issues somewhere, but hopefully everyone will have shipped over their ammo in advance (may it all arrive intact). Did you or are you shipping ammo? I didn't think you could ship it from the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Did you or are you shipping ammo? I didn't think you could ship it from the US. I'm not going this time around. But I shipped ammo out to South Africa in 2002, it got there... I, unfortunately did not (damn anti-malaria medication ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Although this topic is sad, sad, indeed - for preserving it's quality - a HUGE THANK YOU to all who have posted. Impressive work! And a special thanks to TGO for coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Did you or are you shipping ammo? I didn't think you could ship it from the US. I only spent 30 minutes putzing around the State Department Directorate of Defense Trade Controls website http://pmddtc.state.gov/ and under Embargoed Countries, Indonesia is not listed. I then clicked on "Licensing" and downloaded the "Firearms Guidance" PDF under the Guidelines column, and under Licensing Exemptions it says: 123. 17c Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use - U.S. persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on hunting trips or sporting events). So our team could've had their handloads exported. Maybe there's still time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slavex Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 again, since it's been brought up a few times again. it doesn't matter where the match is held, ammo is going to be an issue. it's that simple. most of the competitors are not local, therefore they must bring ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawG26 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 45% of WS participants will use the official Armscor match ammo. Which means that the other 55%, assuming most of these are non Balinese participants, have evidently made timely arrangements for their ammo shipments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 45% of WS participants will use the official Armscor match ammo.Which means that the other 55%, assuming most of these are non Balinese participants, have evidently made timely arrangements for their ammo shipments. In 2005 0% of participants used official Match ammo (There was no official match ammo). There were not 100% of the competitors who made, "timely arrangements for their ammo shipments" as evidenced by the fact that many folks ran out. Although, I'm sure everyone there thought they had two months before the match. I managed to finish the match with 14 rounds left over, but only because I brought my wife with me to be my ammo mule. There are probably 99% of 2008 WS participants hoping that their ammo arrives for this match. But no one, except the local shooters, have any guarantees at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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