WorldShoot in Bali : No Rob, No Todd, No Dave, No Phil....?

[norbs007]

Eric Grauffel always travel with his father.

Which means 22lbs of ammo.

Plus I discussed with him about it once, he have frequent arrangements with some airlines as he's a frequent flyer.

Got lots of miles.

Is it also true that he normally arrive a week before and practice? Heard it from a WS competitor.

[Rob Boudrie]

+1, I work as IATA Dangerous Goods Instructor and there are more rules and regulations shipping to the US than to any other country. I live in Sweden and therefore have few problems although the beaurocracy is thik. If the WS was to be in the US far more shooter would have problems coming to the US than the US delegation going to Bali.

That may be true for shipping ammo, but you can't beat the US for buying ammo.

Anyone with a credit card can have ammo from one of the big manufacturers sent from one of dozens of mail order firms to the match, plus there is Atlanta Arms & Ammp, Precision Delta, Pony Express and other second tier ammo companies.

How many choices can you pick in Indonesia by going on-line or picking up the phone to arrange to have ammo wiating for you at the match?

[davaodoc]

That may be true for shipping ammo, but you can't beat the US for buying ammo.

Anyone with a credit card can have ammo from one of the big manufacturers sent from one of dozens of mail order firms to the match, plus there is Atlanta Arms & Ammp, Precision Delta, Pony Express and other second tier ammo companies.

How many choices can you pick in Indonesia by going on-line or picking up the phone to arrange to have ammo wiating for you at the match?

Unfortunately, that is not exactly correct. Visitors to the US cannot legally purchase ammo.

From the BATF FAQs:

(B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition? [back]

Yes, a person who –

(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;

(R1) May nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States?

Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States

In order for visitors who wish to shoot in the US to be able to bring firearms and purchase ammo in the US, you need to get an import permit from the BATF (ATF Form 6 NIA) AND a hunting license.

[Mapzter]

When asked why they were in these "3rd world countries" he explained that it was because the council members that vote on it like the atmosphere of these countries for their own benefit. Don't hate the messenger. That's what he said.

Where the WS is held is determined by two factors: which regions make a bid for the WS, and how the Regional Directors vote on these bids. It's not decided by the IPSC Executive or the President's Council.

[BritinUSA]

there's a difference between visitors to the USA and aliens.

Non immigrant aliens are those that reside in this country on a non immigrant visa (not a green card). Resident aliens are those with a green card. Visitors who come here to shoot in competitions or for hunting are not covered by the FAQs that you mention in you post. I will try to find the correct rules when I get home.

[norbs007]

I believe the following falls under the non-immigrant alien status.

B1, B2 - Visitor (Tourist) Visa

H1, H2 - Working Visa

F1, F2 - Student Visa

Too many letters to mention.

Edited October 8, 2008 by norbs007

[BritinUSA]

For visitors to this country who wish to shoot, they have to fill out the BATFE form 6-NIA and fax that along with a copy of the invitation to participate in a shooting event/competition (you do not need a hunting license though you do if you are going hunting).

If you bring in ammunition you must not leave any of it here, but return with it to your country of origin.

Revised Questions and Answers On TD-ATF-471 (Temporary Regulations regarding Nonimmigrant Aliens)

(bold bits added by me)

1. Q. May foreign visitors and other nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States?

A. Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.

There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:

nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid (unexpired) hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States; nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the collection, competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;

This FAQ comment (Web Link) indicates that you may purchase ammunition if you are here for a shooting competition.

[davaodoc]

The BATF Form 6 NIA is a temporary permit to IMPORT firearms and ammo into the US. It is not a permit to PURCHASE ammo within the US.

I think that to legally purchase ammo within the US, all visitors, excluding green card holders, need a valid hunting license.

I also think that this issue needs to be addressed if the US wins the bid for the the next worldshoot

[Jim Norman]

I am not a legal authority nor do I play one on TV. Heck, I don't even stay at the Holiday Inn, BUT

My belief is that generally speaking in most states, all you need to buy ammo is money. Illinois and NJ come to mind as two places where this is not true. Illinois will only sell to those with a Hunting License or a resident FID card. NJ will sell you non-Handgun Ammo, but not handgun ammo, unless you have a FID card.

Other states may have more or less stringent rules.

Jim

[BritinUSA]

The BATF Form 6 NIA is a temporary permit to IMPORT firearms and ammo into the US. It is not a permit to PURCHASE ammo within the US.

I think that to legally purchase ammo within the US, all visitors, excluding green card holders, need a valid hunting license.

I also think that this issue needs to be addressed if the US wins the bid for the the next worldshoot

Jim is correct. The web-link that I posted is also correct.

1. If you are VISITING the country for a shooting competition then you may purchase ammunition. It's on the BATFE web-site, it's very clear.

2. If you are LIVING in the USA and you are NOT a GREEN CARD holder and NOT a US Citizen, then you need a hunting license to be able to own a gun or buy ammunition.

These are two separate things, the first refers to VISITORS and the second refers to people who LIVE here. I know this stuff because I was a non-immigrant alien who needed a hunting permit, then got a GREEN CARD (no longer needed the permit) then got CITIZENSHIP.

Edited October 8, 2008 by BritinUSA

[photog]

Correct. Having lived in places where up to 50% of the population doesn't speak English (think CA), the only thing one needs is MONEY to buy ammo. Big 5 does not even check IDs for ammo if you look old enough. A friend of mine moved here from Australia, on an E3 visa (work visa). He had to get a hunting license and a drivers license, but was able to buy a nice CZ75TS. And that's in CA!!

Edit to add the VISITING is very different from the LIVING (or working) requirements. If you are VISITING you can buy ammo, if you are LIVING you can't, until you get a hunting license.

Edited October 17, 2008 by photog

[Charles Bond]

In Georgia, Walmart excepted, if you are old enough to shave and you have money, you can buy ammo.

[dansy]

I have bought ammo more then once for competition, no problem at all. My form 6 allow me 3000 rounds of super comp.....I just cannot leave any in the state (selling it)

[Coolduckboy]

In Georgia, Walmart excepted, if you are old enough to shave and you have money, you can buy ammo.

I buy "Carbine" ammo when i go to walmart. only have to be 18 years of age.

[kgunz11]

Not that it has anything to do with the OP or the topic at hand, but just for clarification...

Georgia law (also a Federal law) states you must be 21 to buy centerfire ammunition in handgun calibers and 18 for rifle calibers. Anyone acting outside of that (selling/purchasing) is committing a Federal felony.

So anyone "old enough to shave" caught attempting to purchase ammunition is also breaking the law, just as if they were a minor attempting to purchase alcohol.

Does federal law place any age restriction on ammunition sellers and purchasers?

Under federal law, it is illegal to sell (1) long gun ammunition to anyone under age 18 and (2) handgun ammunition to anyone under age 21 (18 USC 922((1), 27 CFR 478. 99(). According to BATF, a licensee may sell interchangeable ammunition such as a . 22 cal. rimfire to a person less than age 21 (but age 18 or older) if the dealer is satisfied that the ammunition is for use in a rifle. If the ammunition is intended for use in a handgun, the 21-year-old minimum age requirement applies.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0203.htm

If you know someone selling ammo to minors you might want to advise them of the ramifications.

[Charles Bond]

Not that it has anything to do with the OP or the topic at hand, but just for clarification...

Georgia law (also a Federal law) states you must be 21 to buy centerfire ammunition in handgun calibers and 18 for rifle calibers. Anyone acting outside of that (selling/purchasing) is committing a Federal felony.

So anyone "old enough to shave" caught attempting to purchase ammunition is also breaking the law, just as if they were a minor attempting to purchase alcohol.

Does federal law place any age restriction on ammunition sellers and purchasers?

Under federal law, it is illegal to sell (1) long gun ammunition to anyone under age 18 and (2) handgun ammunition to anyone under age 21 (18 USC 922((1), 27 CFR 478. 99(). According to BATF, a licensee may sell interchangeable ammunition such as a . 22 cal. rimfire to a person less than age 21 (but age 18 or older) if the dealer is satisfied that the ammunition is for use in a rifle. If the ammunition is intended for use in a handgun, the 21-year-old minimum age requirement applies.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0203.htm

If you know someone selling ammo to minors you might want to advise them of the ramifications.

That this is the law, of that there is no question. Of course in the wake of modern hunting pistols, there is very little ammo that is long gun only anymore.

[Bucky]

Has anyone considered, what if the US does get the Word Shoot, and subsequently another AWB is passed?

[Cardinal]

Thought about it and agree. That would be a problem.

I think its as simple as, not allowed to bring in high-caps, no WS in the US...

So hopefully McCain wins....

[Flexmoney]

I am going to close this thread down, as it has morphed off topic and into a few different directions. Not that any of the directions are bad, they just need their own thread.

So, if warranted, please start a fresh thread for any related topic that comes up. (ie...one for the next WS bid...one for match reports from this year...etc.)

If you have something that just absolutely belongs in this thread, let me or another moderator know.

Thanks.

- Admin.