motosapiens Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 1/30/2024 at 4:57 PM, aandabooks said: Nationals slots won't matter if this continues. They won't have a hope in hell of filling up a Nationals with awarded slots. Be able to walk on the day of the match and shoot. im not so sure of that. it appears that most of the loudest howlers on FB don’t even shoot nationals. i know the l2 and l3 matches were shooting this year filled up just as fas as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, motosapiens said: im not so sure of that. it appears that most of the loudest howlers on FB don’t even shoot nationals. i know the l2 and l3 matches were shooting this year filled up just as fas as ever. A8 always fills with in minutes. This year last I checked only had like 250 registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Unless I'm mistaken, Jeff Cooper was using the term "Hit Factor" by 1979 ... 5 years before USPSA came into existence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 20 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said: Unless I'm mistaken, Jeff Cooper was using the term "Hit Factor" by 1979 ... 5 years before USPSA came into existence! In 1974 Cooper called it "Comstock Count". Use of a term doesn't necessarily foreclose on a trademark but does make it more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) PSC Rule Book 1981 mentions Hit Factor scoring which predates the claim in the Trademark Application Edited February 6 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Back in the day, regions printed their own rule books from the World-wide rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 36 minutes ago, shred said: In 1974 Cooper called it "Comstock Count". Use of a term doesn't necessarily foreclose on a trademark but does make it more difficult. Thanks ... I just looked up the 1979 article in American Handgunner by Cooper. He was still using the Comstock Count verbige at the time. 9 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: PSC Rule Book 1981 mentions Hit Factor scoring which predates the claim in the Trademark Application Thank you very much ... I knew the IPSC usage of the term predated USPSA's existance. This documents it well. A reminder to all ... USPSA Rules originally came from IPSC rules! Edited February 6 by Schutzenmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 history lesson here-comstock count was created by gentleman named Walt Comstock. hard to miss-brite white, hair and goatee. I met him when I first started shooting in 1984. he was living in Placerville, CA at that time. he would put on a match once a year and he used a stop watch and a hand signal to start the course of fire. he passed about 20 years,ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 When I first started shooting practical pistol, we had advanced a long way from this methodology; We used a stop-watch and a whistle. It was cutting edge technology back then. I do recall when one of our members bought a shot-timer, I felt like one of those apes when they first see the monolith in 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 4 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: When I first started shooting practical pistol, we had advanced a long way from this methodology; We used a stop-watch and a whistle. It was cutting edge technology back then. I do recall when one of our members bought a shot-timer, I felt like one of those apes when they first see the monolith in 2001. And remember when we could actually find an affordable chronograph? I know I thought what's next, heads up display for our 1911's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I could try to explain how we determined power factor back then using a pendulum. but most of you would fall asleep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 19 minutes ago, outerlimits said: I could try to explain how we determined power factor back then using a pendulum. but most of you would fall asleep... Problem was, if you put too many rounds in one you needed to recalibrate it due to it getting heavier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, pskys2 said: And remember when we could actually find an affordable chronograph? I know I thought what's next, heads up display for our 1911's? A red-dot is basically a Heads-Up-Display, so you were on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I do find it a little weird this is the battle they choose to fight. I would like to know what brain trust came up with the idea. This will do nothing to stop anyone from using points/second scoring. I do not want to use the term "H!t Fa7or" scoring to avoid any future litigation. I also find it equally weird that people who claim to attend and work numerous nationals do not seem to be worried in the least about USPSA's current burn rate. From the outside it does not look like they have done anything to stop or even slow their spending. Are we expected to believe that USPSA can continue to operate for years operating in the red? They are not the Federal Government who can print their own money. Ken Nelson of Practiscore has already written a post indicating that Practiscore will just use another name (as would everyone else) if USPSA were able to Trademark their term for points/per second. Hell, if I were Practiscore I would just charge USPSA for using the site. From my understanding Practiscore currently does not do that. Pretty sure no one wants to go back to scoring on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, BritinUSA said: A red-dot is basically a Heads-Up-Display, so you were on the right track. Actually, I explained it exactly that way to the USAF 3 Star (3rd AF/CC) back about 1995! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 A7 director is on record as stating that he had no idea they were going to attempt to trademark the phrase. Ben Berry reposted the comment, so I assume he was equally blind-sided. Ben Berry also stated that this was done before the January BOD meeting and no mention of it was made during that meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I wonder how this will affect these businesses or should I say, how will these businesses affect USPSA's trademark application? https://hitfactor.biz/ Nolan https://hitfactor.com/ Join us on Discord! We Are Hit Factor Welcome to Hit Factor, an indie game developer founded in the summer of 2020 by a group of passionate industry veterans. Our mission is simple: to bring joy and empowerment to players around the world. Our team has decades of expertise in creating rich social experiences on various platforms, and we believe that player satisfaction is key to everything we do. Whether you’re a casual gamer or a seasoned pro, Hit Factor has something for everyone. Join us today and become a part of the gaming revolution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 USPSA is only trying to get a trademark in the context of scoring shooting competitions (which is going to be difficult enough IMO) Famously Apple Inc and Apple Records both had trademarks on 'Apple', piles of fruit at the store notwithstanding-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 What is next, will USPSA try to trademark "PPS" (points per second), and "SDT" (score divided by time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 9 hours ago, BritinUSA said: A7 director is on record as stating that he had no idea they were going to attempt to trademark the phrase. Ben Berry reposted the comment, so I assume he was equally blind-sided. Ben Berry also stated that this was done before the January BOD meeting and no mention of it was made during that meeting. I'm given to understand the current President was blindsided as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, Schutzenmeister said: I'm given to understand the current President was blindsided as well. Which begs the question ... Who was responsible? Edited February 7 by ddc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, ddc said: Which begs the question ... Who was responsible? Unknown, at this point in time. I think we may need to give things a few days for the inevitable defication storm (at BoD/HQ levels) to percolate before any answers are forthcoming. That's not a jab at anyone on the board ... just a cold look at reality. Hopefully, we should hear something after the next BoD meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 16 hours ago, BritinUSA said: A red-dot is basically a Heads-Up-Display, so you were on the right track. Yes and we all laughed about it at the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver123 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 This has the smell of managing director and head of media relations if I was to guess. The only people with the power to do such. An attorney has already sent a letter asking for the trademark to be rejected due to its common use. This is kinda paraphrased so dont flame on exact wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lroy Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Even if they had the best intentions, the optics of this is hilariously bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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