Cuz Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Ok, forgive my ignorance, but is IPSC as messed up as USPSA is right now? Why not just forget about USPSA and start shooting IPSC matches? Once USPSA dries up and dies, we can look to form another US affiliation branch of IPSC, but until then, can't we join IPSC and shoot under their rules??? Or, am I totally missing the boat on this? It surely wouldn't be the first time, just ask my wife... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 minutes ago, Cuz said: Ok, forgive my ignorance, but is IPSC as messed up as USPSA is right now? Why not just forget about USPSA and start shooting IPSC matches? Once USPSA dries up and dies, we can look to form another US affiliation branch of IPSC, but until then, can't we join IPSC and shoot under their rules??? Or, am I totally missing the boat on this? It surely wouldn't be the first time, just ask my wife... why not just keep shooting uspsa matches? the local matches near me are better than ever, and i don’t really care if $3 of my match fee goes to uspsa. full disclosure: i filed my taxes this week instead of moving to costa rica, even tho i disagree with many things the govt is doing…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Cuz said: Ok, forgive my ignorance, but is IPSC as messed up as USPSA is right now? Why not just forget about USPSA and start shooting IPSC matches? Once USPSA dries up and dies, we can look to form another US affiliation branch of IPSC, but until then, can't we join IPSC and shoot under their rules??? Or, am I totally missing the boat on this? It surely wouldn't be the first time, just ask my wife... There is no individual membership in IPSC, regions are members. The US Region is known as USPSA. And, we are the only region that has it's own rulebook. The rest of the world shoots under the IPSC rulebook. Edited February 9 by OPENB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 36 minutes ago, Cuz said: Ok, forgive my ignorance, but is IPSC as messed up as USPSA is right now? Why not just forget about USPSA and start shooting IPSC matches? Once USPSA dries up and dies, we can look to form another US affiliation branch of IPSC, but until then, can't we join IPSC and shoot under their rules??? Or, am I totally missing the boat on this? It surely wouldn't be the first time, just ask my wife... I assume your going to step up and start running matches as part of the we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Cuz said: Ok, forgive my ignorance, but is IPSC as messed up as USPSA is right now? Why not just forget about USPSA and start shooting IPSC matches? Once USPSA dries up and dies, we can look to form another US affiliation branch of IPSC, but until then, can't we join IPSC and shoot under their rules??? Or, am I totally missing the boat on this? It surely wouldn't be the first time, just ask my wife... 1 hour ago, OPENB said: There is no individual membership in IPSC, regions are members. The US Region is known as USPSA. And, we are the only region that has it's own rulebook. The rest of the world shoots under the IPSC rulebook. Correctly quoted ... One cannot as an individual join IPSC. USPSA is the US Region within IPSC. As such, any USPSA club has full authority to run a match under IPSC rules. The key is, if you're going to do it, you need to do it under IPSC rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Ok, I got it. I was originally thinking that joining IPSC rather than USPSA might be an option. I guess that’s not the case. I guess I’ll go back to plan A which is to let my membership lapse and just keep shooting any local match I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 As reported by Ben Berry on IG... The trademark claim for "Hit Factor" has been abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, Cuz said: Ok, I got it. I was originally thinking that joining IPSC rather than USPSA might be an option. I guess that’s not the case. I guess I’ll go back to plan A which is to let my membership lapse and just keep shooting any local match I want. Or you could maintain your membership and your right to vote and hope that the shortly to be FIVE new ADs are more responsive to their members concerns than the old guard has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 4 hours ago, Maximis228 said: As reported by Ben Berry on IG... The trademark claim for "Hit Factor" has been abandoned. Absolutely trust Ben on this, but for those who want to see the official document ... HIT FACTOR - United States Practical Shooting Association Trademark Registration (uspto.report) Quote 2024-02-09 Status: Abandoned because the applicant filed an express abandonment. Some questions still linger, however: - Whose idea was this? - Who approved hiring an attorney to do the filing? - How much are the fees (for this foolish endeavor) costing USPSA? - What corrective actions will be taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 14 hours ago, ddc said: Or you could maintain your membership and your right to vote and hope that the shortly to be FIVE new ADs are more responsive to their members concerns than the old guard has been. I could, and have maintained my membership, but since I shoot less than 1 actual USPSA match per year, the dues increase doesn’t make it worth it to me. Most of the matches in my driving wheelhouse are falling steel, hit factor, or some other sort of Action Pistol match. Now I’ve recently started shooting trap, and will start precision rimfire this spring. There’s plenty of non-USPSA matches to fill my schedule. At 61 years old, I’m not going to jump in and try to change things, I’m on cruise control and just enjoying shooting as more of a social activity than a competitive event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 22 hours ago, Cuz said: is IPSC as messed up as USPSA is right now It's an international sanctioning body for a sport, so my starting assumption is that it (like all other international sporting sanctioning bodies) is massively corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, Fishbreath said: It's an international sanctioning body for a sport, so my starting assumption is that it (like all other international sporting sanctioning bodies) is massively corrupt. I'm sure there are some regions that suffer from corruption and do a poor job of representing their members, and losing a ton of money each year, and paying themselves vast sums of money with scant regard for the value they return to the sport. I don't think this is endemic to the entire organization; some people value integrity and honesty above money and power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 IME from meeting a couple dozen over the years IPSC RDs are not in it for the cash and cars and chicks. A lot of them are pretty well off, as is the current IPSC president, partly because practical shooting is a sport for the well off in much of the world. The executive council or whoever, IDK about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I'm not sure if IPSC contributes anything to the individual regions. I don't even think they pay for the RDs to fly out to the general assemblies. What the individual member regions do is their own business, and it could well be that the leadership of some of those regions are enriching themselves. In that sense, it would be no difference to the accusations of malpractice going on in USPSA, which itself is just another member region of IPSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 It appears that USPSA also TRADEMARKed the letters I P S C, back in 2019-2020. Citing their first use of the phrase in April 2017. Someone did some research and trademark was in existence from around 2006 to 2013, when it was canceled. "I.P.S.C." was a registered mark from 1997-2004, when it too was canceled. This is the letters I P S C with no dots just spaces. If the mark last expired in 2013, then it was open season from 2014 onwards. Universal Shooting Academy hosted the 2014 IPSC World Shoot in that year so they had first use of it in USA. I'm guessing the earliest use after that was the 2017 Front Sight Article that is referenced in the Trademark application. Not sure why USPSA did this; I think they can only use IPSC while they are the Regional Directorate of the organization. Link to Application at USPTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 "IPSC" has been in used since the 1970s in the US at the first Columbia Conference. Whatever combination of spaces and periods. Why they chose to TM it with just spaces, who knows, but 'first use" of trademarks is largely irrelevant if they aren't in continuous use as such. If the "Ipswich Pond Shooting Club" had "I P S C" trademarked in 1963 and let it lapse, anybody could pick it up again if they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 59 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: It appears that USPSA also TRADEMARKed the letters I P S C, back in 2019-2020. Citing their first use of the phrase in April 2017. Someone did some research and trademark was in existence from around 2006 to 2013, when it was canceled. "I.P.S.C." was a registered mark from 1997-2004, when it too was canceled. This is the letters I P S C with no dots just spaces. If the mark last expired in 2013, then it was open season from 2014 onwards. Universal Shooting Academy hosted the 2014 IPSC World Shoot in that year so they had first use of it in USA. I'm guessing the earliest use after that was the 2017 Front Sight Article that is referenced in the Trademark application. Not sure why USPSA did this; I think they can only use IPSC while they are the Regional Directorate of the organization. Link to Application at USPTO Strange ... When I clicked on the link provided in your post, it seems what was actually registered was I P S P, not I P S C. (Where did you find the link to the page you posted?) Application - USPTO TSDR Case Viewer and Certificate - USPTO TSDR Case Viewer The ineptitude goes back some years, methinks! Edited February 12 by Schutzenmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) This is the Certificate This it the source of the image that I posted One says IPSC the other IPSP ???? The links are going to the wrong document, maybe a problem with USPTO Edited February 12 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Ah Ha! Found the source of the discrepency ... Two different document numbers and two different filings: 88347394 filed 03/19/2019 88653994 filed 10/14/2019 Apparently they screwed up, realized it about 6 months later, then refiled. I guess we now hold a TM for both IPSP and IPSC ... FWIW, by the dates this all happened under the Foley administration ... A lot of folks have changed since then. Thanks @BritinUSA ... I didn't doubt you, just something didn't quite add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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