GrumpyOne Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 13 minutes ago, Dirty_J said: I agree. There’s a reason this place isn’t flush with cash for the hosting. Why do you assume that? It’s rarely fun and only sometimes informative to post here. It’s the ultimate echo chamber. I'll post a bit from the forum rules, which have been in place for 20+ years. Intent This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) Hopefully this feedback gets to the powers that be… as I know it’ll be deleted. This place is dying… and the extreme moderation is why. Y’all have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoNick Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 8 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: No need for all that...besides, no account ever gets deleted. 6 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: It's not censorship. It's the forum rules. Forum rules say I can request account deletion. It’s under the privacy/security portion of account settings. Which is it are we following forum rules or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Just now, ColoradoNick said: Forum rules say I can request account deletion. It’s under the privacy/security portion of account settings. Which is it are we following forum rules or not? Yes, you can request it...but it will not be granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
858 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 10 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: It's not censorship. It's the forum rules. You have really misread the room on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_J Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 5 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Most forums don’t have to ask for hosting fee donations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, 858 said: You have really misread the room on this one. You have misread the forum rules on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, Dirty_J said: Most forums don’t have to ask for hosting fee donations. And your point? You are still assuming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Let’s not get side-tracked here; There are many issues within the sport that need to be addressed, the owners of this forum have no obligation to provide a place for those discussions. USPSA used to have their own forum where people could discuss everything including elections and other non-shooting topics. That forum was shutdown around 2014 if I recall, it was right around the time of the USPSA President elections. There are other places that could be used such as Reddit, Discord, or Gab. Let’s not turn on each other, the people who run this forum and the members that participate here are NOT the problem, focus on the SOURCE of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/25/2024 at 7:12 PM, BritinUSA said: If you haven’t watched the two most recent BOD meetings, I would suggest you take a look. They are here on YouTube Yes, the videos are very telling by observing each board members demeanor and non verbal cues. Things that cannot be picked up my simply reading Board minutes. I am curious what a board meeting is like with some of the directors when the board meetings are not being live streamed. I agree with @BritinUSAto fully understand what is going on and the dynamics of the board watch the videos of the Board meetings. Currently, USPSA has in its coffers approximately 1.8 million, meaning if the Board continues to act in the current form regarding finances USPSA has a three to four years of runway at its current burn rate. Something needs to change. I am not telling anyone how to think who to vote for, what I am telling you is if you really care about USPSA as much as you claim, you may want become invested in what is going on. The fact the members of the board are hindering other members of the board about understanding USPSAs finances is very telling and troubling. If you truly care about USPSA the simple expression "I just want to shoot", is not going to cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 FYI; The current burn rate assumes that the revenue for the next 2-3 years will be similar to the previous 2-3. But that is not likely unless something changes very soon. I understand that some clubs have not re-affiliated and the growth of Outlaw/HitFactor matches will further reduce income. If the org is going to continue they need to address the ‘spending vs revenue’ ratio, they need to reconsider having so many Nationals that benefit only a tiny subset of the membership. They need to reconsider how Nationals is sponsored, it needs fewer prizes and more cash for the match itself. Salaries of certain employees and AD expenses also need to be examined. I would also suggest a full review of past finances to ensure full legal/tax compliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Further, I would suggest a restructure of USPSA. I think there should be two corporate entities; A COMPANY to manage the BUSINESS such as finances, contracts, taxes etc. and an ORGANIZATION that manages the SPORT. Revenues would go to the COMPANY, which would set a budget that the ORGANIZATION must adhere to. The ORGANIZATION must be transparent and answerable to the membership. Profits from the COMPANY would be disbursed via grants to L1 clubs to enhance their facilities, or to purchase equipment such as timers, tablets, steel etc. Increases in affiliation, activity, classifier fees would be made by the COMPANY only if costs outstripped revenue. Fees would be reduced if there was still an excess of profits after all grants have been fulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice36 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, BritinUSA said: FYI; The current burn rate assumes that the revenue for the next 2-3 years will be similar to the previous 2-3. But that is not likely unless something changes very soon. I understand that some clubs have not re-affiliated and the growth of Outlaw/HitFactor matches will further reduce income. Is there a place where I can see the financials, not that I don't believe you, but I hear so many different things I would like to see if for myself. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 11 minutes ago, Ice36 said: Is there a place where I can see the financials, not that I don't believe you, but I hear so many different things I would like to see if for myself. Thanks Yeah ... Go to the USPSA Web site. Select Membership Resources. Scroll way down and select Financial Documents. Select the type document you want and the year. Real hard to find ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice36 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 1 minute ago, Schutzenmeister said: Yeah ... Go to the USPSA Web site. Select Membership Resources. Scroll way down and select Financial Documents. Select the type document you want and the year. Real hard to find ... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 FWIW I shot an 85-ish shooter club match today (in Area 4). About five people cared why a different local USPSA club was going to Hit Factor matches, the rest couldn't care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 3 hours ago, BritinUSA said: Further, I would suggest a restructure of USPSA. I think there should be two corporate entities; A COMPANY to manage the BUSINESS such as finances, contracts, taxes etc. and an ORGANIZATION that manages the SPORT. Revenues would go to the COMPANY, which would set a budget that the ORGANIZATION must adhere to. The ORGANIZATION must be transparent and answerable to the membership. Profits from the COMPANY would be disbursed via grants to L1 clubs to enhance their facilities, or to purchase equipment such as timers, tablets, steel etc. Increases in affiliation, activity, classifier fees would be made by the COMPANY only if costs outstripped revenue. Fees would be reduced if there was still an excess of profits after all grants have been fulfilled. What they are doing now is not sustainable. Everything seems bloated compared to where it was 10 years ago when I started in this sport. Used to have a part time president, managing director and a couple people in the office doing paperwork/affiliations. They used to have 6 divisions and one club was taking care of 2 of the nationals every year. The classification system wasn't as fast but that was ok since most people were only shooting a couple matches a month and they could wait. Practiscore wasn't even around and we used to carry around paper to score a match. The one constant that hasn't changed is that on the whole the national org does nothing for the local clubs. I just got my club's new charter and it came with a fancy charter, a $200 cert from Brian at Hunter's Gold and some stickers/patches. No affiliation discounts so my club can buy more steel, no coupons to buy targets. Basically, thanks for the $50 and make sure you get in your 7 matches and 4 classifiers so you can have the honor of sending us $50 again next December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 When I first got here in 1998 it was all paper scoring. The classifier data was being entered manually by staff at USPSA. PractiScore changed everything. Once the majority of clubs had switched over, the cost of maintaining the classification system must have dropped through the floor. Those cost-savings were not passed on to the clubs. There is no reason why USPSA could not offer grants to clubs to help them improve, they could organize bulk purchases of tablets, timers and steel and pass those savings on to the clubs. Instead the focus is on the Nationals at the expense of everything else, and the clubs are left to fend for themselves. They need to severely limit AD travel/expenses, go back to a single combined Nationals for a few years until things get back on track. If they are not going to change course then its time to look for alternatives. I wonder if other countries receive as much revenue from IPSC competitors as the USA does, and how do they spend it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMSMB Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 4 hours ago, BritinUSA said: FYI; The current burn rate assumes that the revenue for the next 2-3 years will be similar to the previous 2-3. But that is not likely unless something changes very soon. I understand that some clubs have not re-affiliated and the growth of Outlaw/HitFactor matches will further reduce income. If the org is going to continue they need to address the ‘spending vs revenue’ ratio, they need to reconsider having so many Nationals that benefit only a tiny subset of the membership. They need to reconsider how Nationals is sponsored, it needs fewer prizes and more cash for the match itself. Salaries of certain employees and AD expenses also need to be examined. I would also suggest a full review of past finances to ensure full legal/tax compliance. They 100% need to slim down to 1 nationals until the org is in the green. Let the few slots get earned from the area matches. Once the org is in the green, then expand as needed, but to take an annual loss again should not be acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lroy Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 6 hours ago, BritinUSA said: There is no reason why USPSA could not offer grants to clubs to help them improve, they could organize bulk purchases of tablets, timers and steel and pass those savings on to the clubs. Instead the focus is on the Nationals at the expense of everything else, and the clubs are left to fend for themselves. i helped start a club a few years ago. It blew my mind how little USPSA does to help. theres no guide or templates for anything. imagine opening a mcdonalds franchise and all they give you to get started is the menu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarRacer Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 15 hours ago, GrumpyOne said: Yes, you can request it...but it will not be granted. This forum sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, CarRacer said: This forum [impolite word] Deleting accounts removes all of the users posts, responses to posts, quoting of posts, etc. It leaves gaping holes in the continuity of the forum. That is why accounts are not deleted. If you wish to no longer be a member here, just do not visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Or your account gets deleted so you can't log in but your posts remain. Is that better? In the mid 90s USPSA would mail a printed book to every club every quarter with every shooter's name and then-current USPSA number in it so they could update the club records for new classifications. Boy was that fun. There were only a few thousand active USPSA members then and I think the "HQ" was someone's garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 I believe the deadline for USPSA club raffiliation is February 15 (or March 15 for late filing with penalties). Will be interesting to see if there's a noticeable decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Where made up matches suck is the instant something goes wrong, is finessed, or a bad call is made. Then it's often just made up on the fly. And that infuriates me. I loathe outlaw matches generally just for this reason, their ad hoc nature as soon as something unintended happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 15 hours ago, aandabooks said: make sure you get in your 7 matches and 4 classifiers That explains what happened at on club I shoot at. The members wanted alternating USPSA and SCSA matches. They shoot Mar thru Nov. 9 matches. They did that for a while and USPSA said nope. Shoot more USPSA matches. So now they have 9 USPSA matches and SCSA only on months with a 5th Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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