Limited Optics with a Converted 40 Cal Limited Gun - Let's DO THIS!!!

[CHA-LEE]

Since I have a fleet of 40 Cal Limited guns and my aging eyes can't see Iron Sights well anymore, I have decided to repurpose one of my Atlas Artemis 40 Cal Limited guns to compete in the Limited Optics division. My Artemis Limited gun was initially built with an RDS Plate system so I can simply take off the rear Iron Sight and add an Red Dot optic Plate.

 

I have a bunch of 180gr 40 Cal bullets left so I will be reusing those in 40 Minor loads. I started off by making 130 - 135 Power factor loads using the same 180gr bullets and powder (Nobel Sport Prima-SV) with a 3.0gr powder drop. Much to my surprise the overall accuracy of these minor loads remained the same as the Major load, but the Point of Impact shifted a few inches. These 40 minor loads have a mega soft felt recoil. This super soft "Powder Puff" recoil impulse is significantly less than my 40 Major load at 170PF.

 

I shot one match with this 130 - 135 PF ammo and much to my surprise I found it to be very distracting. The super soft recoil impulse, though nice feeling, was very distracting and also lead to me relaxing my grip too much because I didn't have to grip the gun HARD to manage the recoil. Relaxing my grip also had a negative impact to my overall aggressiveness during the stage run which basically made me do everything in a much more "Lazy" manner. The other thing that I noticed was that steel target hits were delayed due to the slower bullet flight time and knocking over steel to activate moving targets was also slower. All of this was very distracting for me which is exactly what I DON'T need during a stage run.

 

I increased the powder drop to 3.2 which bumped up the Power Factor to around 150. This slightly spicier 40 Minor ammo had just enough harshness in the felt recoil that it forces me to grip the gun HARD all the time. I still need to do some dedicated Steel target and activator sequence testing with this ammo to see if that has improved as well. But so far, this 150 PF ammo isn't as distracting to me while shooting.

 

On the Mag Capacity front, I can cram 21 rounds into my 140mm 40 cal mags, but I normally only put 20 rounds in them unless 21 is absolutely needed. I know that a similar 9mm 140mm mag setup can get 24+1 and that could be an advantage on some stages where it would eliminate a reload. So far in the matches I have shot, I am yet to run into a situation were only having 21+1 was a significant disadvantage. Most field courses have 1 or more steps of non-shooting movement where I can perform a reload and it doesn't add time to my stage run. I am sure that I will eventually run into a stage where having 24+1 will be a significant advantage from a potential hit factor perspective. But I think those will be infrequent enough that it really won't matter in the long run.

 

I plan on continuing to shoot 40 Cal Limited Optics until my current supply of reloading components is exhausted (About 20K). This will give me enough time to truly determine if its a disadvantage over a 9mm setup. So far, it isn't.

 

For all of those shooters out there who have a 40 Cal Limited Gun sitting in their safe collecting dust, getting the slide cut for a red dot and using it in Limited Optics could bring it a second life. Its also a heck of a lot cheaper than getting a whole new 9mm 2011 setup. Don't consider the 2 - 3 rounds less in the 140mm 40 mags as a significant disadvantage to the 9mm setups.

[Runswithwood1]

That's a pretty good idea, I've got a couple .40s that I doubt get used after this season thatll need something done with. You're right, 40 minor is deceivingly soft

[zzt]

When I shot Limited, I initially used 180gr bullets.  I found that I could shoot 172 PF and 144 PF without changing anything in the gun.  POI was exactly the same with both loads.   40 minor is way softer than 9mm minor.

 

I put a dot on my Limited gun years ago and shot it in Open for steel challenge with minor loads.

Edited September 20, 2023 by zzt

[Midwest3Gunner]

We were just talking about this in another thread. Hopefully this isn't too much thread drift, but what plates would be best to get our slides milled for that already have Bomar cuts in them?

 

 

[CHA-LEE]

9 minutes ago, Midwest3Gunner said:

We were just talking about this in another thread. Hopefully this isn't too much thread drift, but what plates would be best to get our slides milled for that already have Bomar cuts in them?

 

 

That is a great question and hopefully others can chime in. My Atlas Artemis uses a plate system which offers a wide range of optic plates for the popular Red Dot sights on the market as well as an Adjustable or Fixed Rear Iron sight. So I can transition it back and forth from Iron sight and Red Dot configurations.

 

If you are going to invest the $$$ to cut an existing Iron Sight slide it would probably make sense to pick a Plate system that still allows you to switch back and forth between Irons and Optics.

[Matt1911]

I still have a whole bunch of loaded .40 ammo, but haven’t shot Limited in a few years, so I had my Limited gun milled for an optic to do the same thing. 

 

[MHicks]

I've shot 3 or 4 matches in LO with my CZ Tac Sport 9mm. I have a regular CZ75B with an optic that could be my LO backup or shot in CO. I also have a 40 upper for the Tac Sport and could put an optic on it and develop a 40 minor load and use it for a backup. I'll wait though on the 40 because I still might want to shoot some Limited. 

[Midwest3Gunner]

Atlas plates do have a adj rear sight plate, so if you get it milled, you could still slap a iron sight plate on when you wanted to shoot true Limited. We'll have to get a list going of all the different plate systems.

[davidb72]

Been thinking about doing this as well. 

I have an Atlas Titan and an STI Edge that could be used.

[LDRIDER]

Have been shooting an STI Edge in LO. Used an EGW dovetail mount for

the SRO. Using 165gr at 132 PF. I'm loving this so far. This gun would have

sat in the safe unused if not for LO. 

[RJH]

I have a nine, but most of my mags are just 20 rounders. I got one that'll do 23 and I use it when I need it. Some matches I never even use it, and the ones that I have it really doesn't save me much time as there was be a place to reload it I just have the option to not. 

 

If it were up to me they would have capped the mag capacity at 20 for limited optics. Then 40s could play at zero disadvantage, and anybody building a new gun could just use cheap 20 round mags for 9 mm. But they didn't ask me

[bulm540]

This is my current set up right now. I have a lot of 40 components and 40 minor with 180s and  clays is silly soft.   

Edited September 20, 2023 by bulm540

[Runswithwood1]

Damnit, you all are making me wanna do this now too

[shred]

Couple people around here have switch barrel 9/40 2011's and it seems to work, so getting another barrel fitted to an unused .40 might be worth looking into.  IIRC Kimber used the same slides for 9 and 40 1911s.

 

[RJH]

7 minutes ago, shred said:

Couple people around here have switch barrel 9/40 2011's and it seems to work, so getting another barrel fitted to an unused .40 might be worth looking into.  IIRC Kimber used the same slides for 9 and 40 1911s.

 

 

 

I was wondering about something like that for the guys with forties. Maybe a barrel, and extractor, and an ejector and it would work?

 

I don't know if it would or not, but Glocks do it so I thought maybe the breech face being a little wide wouldn't hurt a 2011 either. But I know a 2011 and a Glock ain't the same thing too LOL

[CHA-LEE]

5 minutes ago, shred said:

Couple people around here have switch barrel 9/40 2011's and it seems to work, so getting another barrel fitted to an unused .40 might be worth looking into.  IIRC Kimber used the same slides for 9 and 40 1911s.

 

 

I have seen a few people try the 9 barrel in a 40 slide conversion locally and they could never get the extraction 100% reliable. They would be 90% - 95% reliable but it would always end up screwing them over during a stage run eventually. I don't know about you guys, but this game is hard enough without also adding the element of battling unreliable equipment.

 

I think Kimber can get away with using the same breach face for both because their customer base rarely shoots their guns more than a few hundred rounds a year. Most of the Kimber 1911's I see in matches have a short lived tenure in the practical shooting games where a significant amount of ammo is consumed.

[CHA-LEE]

18 minutes ago, bulm540 said:

This is my current set up right now. I have a lot of 40 components and 40 minor with 180s and  clays is silly soft.   

 

Clays is an awesome 40 Minor powder. When I run out of Prima-SV I will likely switch to Clays for these Minor loads.

[mike4045]

I have used 180 gr 40 in production. With TG it's a good combination. I do prefer some 140 gr coated in 40 for the 1911/2011. I did go ahead and order the Accuracy X slide and am in process of fitting onto my 3 gun 9mm. I did consider cutting one my limited guns, but couldn't do it.

 

Mike

[IVC]

I was in a similar position, wanting to convert my .40 Limited Infinity. Luckily, they use modular breechfaces and I had ordered a full 9mm conversion at the time I got it (fitted barrel, recoil assembly, breechface, extractor and ejector).
 

After finding a local guy to cut the slide and caliber conversion, I now have an awesome  9mm dedicated L/O gun. 

[ddc]

17 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Clays is an awesome 40 Minor powder. When I run out of Prima-SV I will likely switch to Clays for these Minor loads.

 

I used to use Prima V for 9mm minor. I liked it.

 

I haven't heard of Prima V or SV for quite some time.

 

[CHA-LEE]

51 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

I used to use Prima V for 9mm minor. I liked it.

 

I haven't heard of Prima V or SV for quite some time.

 

Yeah, unfortunately Prima V or SV stopped being imported to the US a few years back. Its a bummer as I really like that powder. But there are plenty of other powders on the market that can get the job done.

[Racinready300ex]

18 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

I have seen a few people try the 9 barrel in a 40 slide conversion locally and they could never get the extraction 100% reliable. They would be 90% - 95% reliable but it would always end up screwing them over during a stage run eventually. I don't know about you guys, but this game is hard enough without also adding the element of battling unreliable equipment.

 

I think Kimber can get away with using the same breach face for both because their customer base rarely shoots their guns more than a few hundred rounds a year. Most of the Kimber 1911's I see in matches have a short lived tenure in the practical shooting games where a significant amount of ammo is consumed.

 

I attempted this with a 40 SS gun and this pretty well sums up my results. Maybe it was a little better than 95% but it wasn't 100. Getting through a major match with out a issue would of been unlikely. 

[zzt]

I don't see the point of rebarreling to 9.  If you shot Limited, you already reload.  So, shoot 40 minor.  You already stage plan with 20-round mags.  What do you think an extra three will get you?  Maybe once a year it might be helpful.

 

I shot 40 Open for a couple of years.  Everyone said I was nuts.  20 and 26 rounds instead of 23 and 29.  Cukoo.  BS.  That was never an issue.  If anyone made a one-piece 40 barrel/comp, I'd still be shooting 40 Open.  Way softer, flatter and quieter than 9 major.

Edited September 21, 2023 by zzt

[Racinready300ex]

23 minutes ago, zzt said:

I don't see the point of rebarreling to 9.  If you shot Limited, you already reload.  So, shoot 40 minor.  You already stage plan with 20-round mags.  What do you think an extra three will get you?  Maybe once a year it might be helpful.

 

 

I know you're all about the 40 life. 

 

But, 21 vs 25 rounds in the gun isn't nothing. I'm sure it depends on the shooters skill right? Some B class guy might be more likely to go war on a piece of steel. If he take's 2 or 3 make up shots on a mini popper, suddenly those extra rounds might be huge. I know shooting limited there were a couple times that 1 extra round I could cram in my mag saved my ass. 

 

Cost was also a consideration for me, once my 40 components got used up I moved away form it. I may only save 3 cents a bullet but that's still between $300 and $600 a year. The 40 Brass is also harder to come by these days making it a touch more money too. But I haven't priced it out. Finding enough at matches isn't really going to happen these days, where 9 is still easy to pick up for free.  I've been playing this game for 10 years now so it adds up. I stopped shooting 40 a couple years ago and haven't looked back.

 

9mm I can also buy cheap factory ammo for practice in a pinch. 40 that's really not a option, and 40 minor it definitely not happening.

 

There is also a little bit of liking to tinker that plays into it too. But, for someone heavily invested in 40 and not looking to move away from it, it's a valid option for sure. 

 

[motosapiens]

i was thinking about going this route until I won a staccato LO gun in a raffle. Now I'll probably just shoot that for a bit if it ever arrives.