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About IVC
- Birthday 12/13/1970
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Temecula, CA
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I. V. Cadez
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Beyond it All (9/11)
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That's the problem - they didn't "check the sensitivity and move on (correct the issue by a reshoot)", they let it stand. The shooter got a local stage win, equivalent of winning a faceoff at the local beer league hockey game. In my initial RO course taught by Jay Worden, years ago, he told us an anecdote about what happened at Nationals one year. A shooter had very low time on one stage and they decided it was impossible for that shooter to have shot it in that time, it must've been timer error. They forced him to reshoot it, and he shot it even faster. Jay's words were (approx.) "and that's how Nils Jonasson was introduced to the sport." Now, there are people here who likely know about what really happened and can corroborate or discredit this story, but the point is that if the score cannot be determined it's a reshoot.
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The first time is suspect clearly wrong, but the next two are highly suspicious too, both being equal and nothing after the initial digit. That's what you get at local matches sometimes. The real problem is that you had THREE or FOUR people in on the scam, the shooter, the timer RO, the tablet RO, and the MD. As the chain of command goes, this is squarely on the MD since he had the last call. But the other three guys are not the kind that you want around...
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I'm all for maintaining barrels and it's one of the easier props to handle correctly smartly. As long as we keep in mind that the rulebook does not require any specific hard cover maintenance, so unpatched barrels are not "against the rules" or "incorrectly done job." What is against the rules is to "give a break to the shooter" if the score cannot be determined due to the uncertainty of what happened at the barrel. The rules clearly require a reshoot. And it is also as clear that at most L1 matches this rule will get slightly bent (a.k.a., broken) by simply scoring the target - after all, we know the guy got two hits on the target.
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The spirit is commendable, but even the USPSA rulebook has a large number of exemptions for Level I and Level II matches. Here are (most of) the rules of explicitly allowed differences between lower and higher level matches: 1.1.5.1 - freestyle exemption 2.1.8.5.1 - appearing targets hiding exemption 4.3.1.4 - metal plates allowed 4.3.1.7.1 - painting metal targets exemption 4.4.2 - synthetic self-healing targets exemption 5.2.8 - duty gear exemption 6.2.4.1 - multiple divisions 7.3.1 - match officials 8.6.2.1 - coaching allowed 9.8.3 - appeal, waiving rights 9.9.4 - activation of targets order in WSB 11.2.2 - arbitration committee + Chrono/ammo/initial calibration and other exemptions There are two takeaways from this: If you're using ANY exemptions, you are almost, but not quite, "helping shooters be successful at bigger matches" since you're still not preparing them for the type of exact issue(s) in this thread, i.e., scoring calls, appeals, arbitration, requesting reshoots, etc. The USPSA as an organization not only recognizes, but condones certain simplifications at lower level matches in order to allow broader participation and deal with the reality on the ground with vast majority of local clubs - limited resources and real estate. Yes, barrels should be maintained, walls should be non-transparent, fault lines should be well-secured, appearing targets should be fully hidden, metal targets should be repainted after every competitor, there should be multiple ROs, all ROs should be certified, ROs should be per-stage and not per-squad, every hit on a plate that doesn't fall should be a REF/reshoot, every stage where the reset is inconsistent between squads should be tossed from the match, ammo should be measured (chrono/weight), all gear position should be measured with the overlay, etc. But in reality, there is a common sense line between running a proper and fully compliant USPSA match and being a DRL/rule Nazi and pushing local clubs into outlaw formats.
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You are not wrong. But the life doesn't operate on perfection. For example, just look at the drivers on the freeway. The only thing that would change if you expected or forced this level of detail at the local matches is that they would simply go outlaw and use 99.9% of the USPSA rules, while allowing themselves some leeway in these obscure cases. Out of curiosity, do your walls have solid fabric that prevents seeing through? If not, I can always shoot at steel through the wall to get a reshoot at will. I'm sure you wouldn't look kindly on anyone doing this intentionally at your match, yet it would be completely to the letter of the rules. And telling you that you should get better walls (and also anchor them better because now they become sails in the wind) probably wouldn't go much better.
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This is one of those cases where common sense kicks in. the rulebook is clear about what happens when the score cannot be determined. There was a recent article in the USPSA magazine about using no-shoots to protect walls and implications for scoring. But it's also a local match where the guy hit the target and the question isn't whether the bullet hit the barrel, but whether it was a partial hit. I'd give him the score unless I was 100% sure it was a full diameter hit on the barrel, which I can't be. Poor barrel condition isn't on the shooter. And it's much more important to have good local matches with props and on limited budget than to be that guy who's telling the RM to force the few volunteers to double their already limited time involvement by polishing every prop.
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Noob question about saftey on 1911/2011 when running...
IVC replied to rayw1128's topic in Miscellaneous BEginners
Some people engage safety, most don't. You MUST have finger outside the trigger guard while moving (not engaging targets) so even if you fall it won't go off. When falling, the most important thing is to keep the muzzle direction under control and not to have finger anywhere near the trigger. Violate either of the two and it's a DQ, but it still doesn't create a catastrophic event. Gun safety is "layered" - violate ANY layer and it's a DQ, violate ALL layers and it's potentially catastrophic. -
If you end up with loose screws after only 20 rounds, you have to figure out at which point the screws start backing out. Put witness marks on the screw/mount and watch when they get misaligned. If it changes 1/16 of a turn in 20 rounds, you should see it move round-to-round as you fire. Alternatively, "checking the process" means that you ensure the torque wrench/screwdriver is in good working order and that you click it properly and consistently. If the screws don't turn but you get to "re-tighten" them, then the problem is with the tool or how it was applied. I'd definitely start with the witness marks and post back in this thread how it goes.
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That's a lot of backing out - if you got 1/16 of a turn after only 20 rounds I would double check your process. Try again and measure after each round. Or shoot 40 rounds and see if you get more backing out. Loctite is a personal preference. Heed the warning, though, about lower torques if your screws are wet with Loctite. Excessive torque on the rings can damage or affect the scope. Torque on the rails is more forgiving, but there is no reason not to stick to the published values.
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That's the one I had. I have no idea where it went, it's not on my phone anymore. Maybe a while ago when I upgraded the phone it was already unavailable... It rubs me the wrong way they would pull these apps.
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There were several. I still have Max Mitchel's "Shot Coach" and there was a DAA (I believe) app. The Shot Coach would automatically detect shots and you could correct it by manually tagging events as you compare them to the visual of the sound. No idea why they removed it from the store. I keep mine...
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Doesn't look unusual to me. There are a lot of moving parts between your body and the rifle. Everything that gets "pushed around" will move in waves as it stops and recovers. After the initial bullet push, you get an abrupt drop in pressure as the bullet exits, you get movement of the BCG, bottoming out, buffer system pushing it back, abrupt stop of the BCG as the next round is chambered. And all of that is combined with the waves traveling through your body as you control the recoil. "Recoil" is not a single event.
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It already exists. USPSA sanctions multi-gun competitions where rifles are one of the guns.
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And no, you won't be able to tell a difference or have consistency issues. If anything, the shape consistency of the bullet and not the weight would be a concern because pistol slugs are only spin-stabilized and do not rely on being aerodynamic. With coated lead, if you go .001" larger than the bore, they get slightly swaged as they travel through the barrel and you get more than decent accuracy. Coated and plated generally don't mix well with compensators anyways, so slightly oversized in traditional barrels is where they shine.
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BB 147 are actually 150 when doing special order of .356" sized bullets. The .355"s that are 148+ are about right. It gives you a margin of error at the chrono, but otherwise we are talking about 1%-2% variability which is expected for coated lead bullets.