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Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!


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About IVC

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  • Birthday 12/13/1970

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    Temecula, CA
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    I. V. Cadez

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  1. WSB requires a reload after each of T1-T4 has been engaged with two rounds. There is nothing preventing a shooter from reloading after each shot, or after each target. It's just that the WSB specifies a "mandatory reload" (as opposed to any other reload) after each target has been engaged with two rounds. So, if you fire 7 rounds and reload, the reload is not the "mandatory reload" required by WSB. It's similar to what a 6-shot revolver would have to do - an intermediate, arbitrary reload. Until each target is engaged with exactly two rounds, you get procedurals for the number of shots/hits (you cannot fire more or less than 2 per target until the reload). Whether you shoot at the targets or do any additional intermediary reloads, you keep collecting procedurals. When you finally hit the last target with two rounds, you now have to reload per WSB and then AGAIN engage all the targets with two shots each. If you don't engage some targets after the reload, you get procedurals for failure to shoot at the target too. Rule 10.2.4 is clear that you collect procedurals per-shot for failure to do the reload. There is nothing that says that the incorrect extra shots before the reload somehow count against procedurals for failure to shoot at the target after you (finally) reload. You still have to fire the specified number of shots and engage each target (with at least one) AFTER the reload, even if you shot at them before. All you get to do is to keep the hits you might have collected when you also collected procedurals, but that can be a double-edged sword if you end up with too many on a target.
  2. Yes, my bad, I just noticed I typed "shot" when I meant "hit." My post doesn't make sense with "shot." I corrected the post. The point is that when aiming at, e.g., T1, one can hit another target and create an extra hit even if everything else is in order. That's all.
  3. Not quite... We learned a few things. First, the range commands don't always have to match the rules. If there is a tribal knowledge or habit, it supersedes the rule book. The best part is that it doesn't even have to be a level 1 match, it works at any level because Troy said so. Second, when the rule book says "must," it can be open to interpretation if other rules somewhat/sorta/kinda fit. A "must holster" means "should holster, unless you change the command." Can't wait to have someone trying to rip a new one to an RO who doesn't follow the rule book. We can just point back to this thread for the template on how to make up rules... /sarcasm
  4. A creative miss can create an extra shot hit somewhere else. EDIT: Didn't notice I actually wrote "shot" when I meant "hit." Clearly, the sentence doesn't make any sense with "shot..."
  5. This is tough to admit, but I hope it help others... Today I was annoyed that the first round off of magazine wouldn't go into battery. Every single time, the initial round would be a FTF. I tried locking back the slide, ensuring I'm not easing it down, different magazines and every time the round would get stuck halfway into the chamber. I would pull the magazine out, pull the slide back, let the round fall into the chamber, let the slide go, insert magazine and start shooting with no further problems. Then, I had another quick burst. Frustrating. Since I recently started roll-sizing and I always use Hundo to gauge rounds (and flip them into trays), I was pretty sure it wasn't the out of spec ammo. I also remember this happening at the last match and going on for about a week or two, so I was getting a bit extra frustrated. Then, suddenly, I noticed that the firing pin was protruding out and it was the firing pin that would block the rim of the round from sliding up and chambering properly. It suddenly dawned on me that it all adds up - two weeks since this thread, a firing pin sticking out, quick burst, problems chambering initial round, bingo! It looks like I had an equivalent of an open bolt full auto gun that didn't fire on the initial chambering simply by thousands of an inch, and would fire when the hammer fell because it was just sufficient nudge to ignite the primer. I immediately took out the firing pin and, sure enough, there were some metal shavings in there that were interfering with the firing pin. No idea how it got in there - the firing pin channel is not only narrow, but it's occupied by the firing pin. I quickly cleaned it up and all my problems went away. I believe this will also stop the bursts, but we'll see. Don't know how I didn't notice it or figure it out sooner, so flame away...
  6. I think i can attribute my problem to the RF 100. I've noticed that it would get stuck at times and that the primer that is supposed to sink into the tube is vibrating sort of sideways, blocking the rest of the "traffic." Then, it would suddenly sink and I'm not at all sure it would go the way it's supposed to go. So, I went back to primer tubes and manual process and in the past 6-700 rounds not a single problem. Turns out that I couldn't leave RF 100 to full the tube by itself, so there wasn't much time saved with stragglers requiring another cycle and having to tweak the speed knob. Then, it would get stuck from time to time. Instead, I can fill a bunch of tubes and then I not only don't have to stop to watch the RF 100 dance show, but I know that all the primers are correctly oriented and I haven't seen a problem since. The delay the cleanup of a single round without the primer would cause is in itself longer than it takes me to fill a few tubes. It also helps that Winchester primers are oriented up instead of Federals that are sideways, so a single flip and no shaking does the trick. I'll wait for the new DAA primer collator to see how it works. Short of that, I'm back to manual tube filling.
  7. Agreed. Also, I don't know a single Revolver shooter who is exclusively shooting Revolver (there are probably some, but I don't know them). In fact, most revolver shooters around here shoot it as a fun secondary division from time to time and shoot other divisions regularly, so everyone is well aware of their standing and skill in race divisions.
  8. Still, I wonder which other commands can have language substitutions under the "no harm no foul" doctrine... How about "Shooter" instead of "Are you," or "Safe" instead of "Clear?" I'm clearly joking, but you get the idea...
  9. You were right :-). I'm only surprised that he said you can substitute language in the command...
  10. Here is the official answer from Troy (with my question below): ==================================================== The proper way to case or bag a handgun at the end of a COF is to simply use the proper range commands, and when ICHDH is issued, you may substitute "bag" or simply say "holster". The rules allow for carrying a gun either in a holster or in a bag or case. Uncasing is similar, in that if a competitor comes to the line with a bagged or cased gun, the range command is simply "Make Ready". They are then free to handle their gun as needed. No separate command is needed in either case. Troy — Troy McManus Director, National Range Officers Institute https://nroi.org https://uspsa.org/ https://steelchallenge.com/ On January 21, 2020, 10:53 AM PST noreply@uspsa.org wrote: -- You received this message via the online contact form. -- Hi Troy, There was a spirited debate about the use of flags in PCC, and another side issue popped up with respect to - while the rule allows PCCs to be cased at that time, there is no similar exemption for handguns. It appears that the only way to case a handgun at that time is to first holster, then ask the RO to supervise the casing, all prior to declaring the range clear. Short of that, the shooter must go to the safety area and bag the handgun there. Question 1: What is the proper way (if any) to case a handgun at the end of COF? Similarly, some Open shooters are so afraid of scratches that they show up as a shooter with the cased handgun. Since there is no clear guidance on uncasing the handgun at such time, it appears that the RO must first issue "Make Ready" (to ensure nobody is in front and the range is clear), then issue a separate command/supervise the uncasing of the handgun. Question 2: What is the proper way (order of commands and reasoning) for uncasing a handgun when a shooter shows up with a cased handgun? Thanks for you time! ==================================================== I'm not sure where the "...you may substitute 'bag'..." comes from since says you "...must holster...," but this is good enough for me. It's also the most logical way to handle it, so I expect the rules will be cleaned up in the next edition to replace "PCC" with "gun" in At least the part for uncasing is clear and consistent with the rules as they are written - issue "Make Ready" as if the gun was in the holster and handling at that time is permitted by the rules, so uncasing is automatically permitted too. All you need to know is that there is a gun in the case so that you can initiate the start of COF.
  11. Probably, but let's hear it anyways. I remember the first time an Open shooter (M or GM, can't remember) showed up at the line with a gun in the bag, I wasn't even certified at the time, and I got confused watching his empty holster and waiting for the gun to somehow appear, while he was waiting for me to give him "Make Ready." He was a very nice guy and we chuckled about it, but I still remember how silly I felt immediately afterwards. Still, giving a guy without a gun a "Make Ready" when you don't even know what's in the bag was a bit strange...
  12. I would normally agree but cannot for two reasons: (1) does explicitly spell out casing for PCC and only for PCC; and (2) the command ICHDH uses "must" for holstering. Best to keep this conversation on hold for a day until I can hear back from Troy and can start a new thread.
  13. Well, the Western States Championship (Level 2) that's coming up has 19 signed up in Revolver and I know that at least one GM is on the staff, so I expect him to shoot on the staff day. Since this is at my "home range," I also know quite a few of the guys signed up for Revolver - they often shoot other divisions at local matches and I don't recall ever all of us shooting Revolver on the same day. There is interest and there is place for Revolver. These types of dedicated L2 matches seem to be just the ticket...
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