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Red dot on open gun


midatlantic
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Hi,

   Considering making an open gun, and was wondering if it’s reasonable to put a high quality red dot, like the  new trijicon, directly on the slide rather than on a separate mount screwed into the frame. Any thoughts? 

Edited by midatlantic
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Some people run in open with that setup.  Not real common but they are out there.  If the dots are holding up in CO then I don't see why not.  I'd follow the best of the CO dots and choose there.  Trijicon SRO, Sig Romeo3 Max/XL are probably the current top choices.

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if youre going to spend the money for an open gun dont try to limp into it poverty style.  The dot reciprocating on the slide is annoying AF.  the other thing is that it slides the slide speed down, when most open shooters are trying to speed it up so the dot has less movement and gets back on target faster

 

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Dito above:  Slide mount optics are a carry optics format.  Everything done to open guns is to speed of the slide and get back into batter as quick as possible for follow up shots.  From the frame mounted optics to the sight tracker barrels ( island barrel ) lighting slices, etc.  All focused on removing material from the slide to make it lighter and faster.  The average time for an open gun to cycle is under.1 sec.  I have witnessed follow-up shots ( from a top GM ) at .11 seconds.  You mount the optics on the slide and he would have to wait.  Crazy to think, but we all want to be that fast, so do not limit yourself with your set-up.

 

Kris

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Don't do it. It doesn't make sense. Frame mounted optics are one of the huge benefits of open division. By mounting your dot on the slide you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage off the bat.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

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A slide mounted red dot worked for me. I liked to shoot limited and open and that sight option helped me with sight acquisition. But then I was never that good. If I started to improve with one I would get bored and start shooting the other but I could always find my sight.and there is zero paralax  with side mounted red dots.

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Carry optics is a ton of fun. If you're going to do this just shoot CO. what kind of gun are you thinking of making an open gun out of. Glocks and a ton of other models have mounts that allow for frame mounted optics instead of attaching it to the slide. 

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I do shoot carry optics (Shadow 2)  but have been making some 80 percent 1911's ( a 9mm and .45) have decided to try my hand at a 2011.

 

I asked about the red dot as part of my thought process to figure out what I might build. (Think I finally figured out how to gunsmith fit a barrel. (A couple of thousand rounds through the 9mm and barrel lugs show no sign of rubbing, impact. Tho that was was the second attempt. The first barrel ended up in the trash.))

 

  Also to help me decide on the 2011, anyone like to recommend a compensator for 9mm major? I dont know much about them, so all advice welcome.

 

  I'd like to keep it short, if possible, and even spring for titanium, to keep the weight off the nose. And am I correct that they only really work with 9mm major?

 

  Thanks

 

  

Edited by midatlantic
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5 minutes ago, midatlantic said:

I do shoot carry optics (Shadow 2)  but have been making some 80 percent 1911's ( a 9mm and .45) have decided to try my hand at a 2011.

 

I asked about the red dot as part of my thought process to figure out what I might build. (Think I finally figured out how to gunsmith fit a barrel. (A couple of thousand rounds through the 9mm and barrel lugs show no sign of rubbing, impact. Tho that was was the second attempt. The first barrel ended up in the trash.))

 

  Also to help me decide on the 2011, anyone like to recommend a compensator for 9mm major? I dont know much about them, so all advice welcome.

 

  I'd like to keep it short, if possible, and even spring for titanium, to keep the weight off the nose. And am I correct that they only really work with 9mm major?

 

  Thanks

 

  

I use a binary engineering 3 port and its amazing. Comps work for any caliber

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Every time the gun cycles and the optic is mounted to the slide the optic incurs two violent events.  With every shot fired.  I fall into the school of thought that Optics are essentially consumables in regards to slide mounted options.  On an open gun I would assume the forces acting on the optic are worse than that on a minor Carry Optics gun if mounted to the slide.  I would do everything in my power to to prevent as much possible damage to the optic with every shot and get as much life out of a $300-$600 optic as possible.  In the long term I would think the optics would last longer not mounted to the slide on any platform, imho.

 

As Maximis mentioned, they all break, just some sooner than other.  Have options as far as backups go.  

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1 hour ago, Maximis228 said:

Every single red dot breaks. Dont let others tell you differently. Have backup plans. If you have 1 open gun... get 2 dots... if you have 2 open guns... get 3-4 dots.

 

This goes for CO guns as well.

dont recall hearing much of this with the oldschool Cmores.

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47 minutes ago, midatlantic said:

Also to help me decide on the 2011, anyone like to recommend a compensator for 9mm major? I dont know much about them, so all advice welcome.

  

The Binary Engineering CFD Comp   is the best lightweight comp for 2011 Eric Davis also makes a good comp, but only in stainless.

 

47 minutes ago, midatlantic said:

 I'd like to keep it short, if possible, and even spring for titanium, to keep the weight off the nose.

 

Even though it's long, the comp above only weighs 1.8oz and most of that weight is in the rear, so it feels very light in the swing, although mid-length guns with full dust covers are all the rage right now, my favorite 2011 was a "super shorty" with a 4.4" barrel, a plastic grip, and a Ti Comp:

 

IMG_20141203_214202.thumb.jpg.c12f7cf71e98ec665dfade69018ba903.jpg

 

47 minutes ago, midatlantic said:

 am I correct that they only really work with 9mm major?

 

I assume you've read comments like "you need to load major to work the comp", while most people associate 9 minor with "production" loads (eg 3ish grains of a fast powder under a 135/147gr bullet) and fast powders don't take advantage of compensators like slow powders do, anything with a power factor under 165 or a bullet weight under 112gr is technically minor, so yes, it is possible to load awesomely flat minor loads, but it doesn't offer much advantage as you don't get any more capacity.  Comps need large charges of slow powder, for more on that topic, check out this thread: 

 

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Just now, Joe4d said:

dont recall hearing much of this with the oldschool Cmores.

Ive had glass fall out of them, lost zero, and had the diode die on me. Not to mention their larger footprint is a huge cause of malfunctions in 2011s. Unless you go with the above sideways mount, which ends up blocking FOV for transitions.

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The big old C-mores are pretty much bulletproof compared to all the little dots.  They can break but so much less often.

 

The big downside is overhanging the ejection port.  Not an issue with .38 Super or Supercomp, but often a source of much woe in 9x19.

 

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3 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

Ive had glass fall out of them, lost zero, and had the diode die on me. Not to mention their larger footprint is a huge cause of malfunctions in 2011s. Unless you go with the above sideways mount, which ends up blocking FOV for transitions.

 

Yes, but if the diode dies, you can replace it yourself.  A new one is $49 and you have to re-zero most of the time.  The biggest failure I've had was the housing splitting at the windage lock screw.  Then the windage would wander.  I did a quick & dirty short term fix with some epoxy, then sent it back to C-More for a rebuild 4 or 5 years later.  They fixed it for free, I just had to pay for the shipping.  I can't remember if it was Dave Re or Shred who posted about fixing the wandering windage.

 

Nolan

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I have 3 old school plastic C-more’s  I ran one on my bowling pin gun for 4 years and then had an open gun built. It’s been on that for 12 years now with no problems! I have 2 others still going strong I hate to change what hasn’t ever broken 👍

 

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I'd like to put one with the all in one sight and mount on my pin gun. Just dont trust myself to drill and tap the frame without screwing it up. And pretty much trust "smiths" even less. They tend to charge you hundred bucks to butcher your gun. I  can do that myself for free.

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On 6/7/2020 at 1:45 PM, Explosiveo said:

Don't do it. It doesn't make sense. Frame mounted optics are one of the huge benefits of open division. By mounting your dot on the slide you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage off the bat.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
 

Yup, I can't disagree with you more~  However, it does work for "some" that's why CO division exist :) 

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Yup, I can't disagree with you more~  However, it does work for "some" that's why CO division exist [emoji4] 
True. However. Open is not Carry Optics.

It is a benefit to have a frame mounted dot. If it wasn't then you would see a lot more people choosing to have slide ride dots in open. But it's extreamly uncommon.

My point is that it's in your best interest to take every advantage that is given in a division.


Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

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19 minutes ago, Explosiveo said:

True. However. Open is not Carry Optics.

It is a benefit to have a frame mounted dot. If it wasn't then you would see a lot more people choosing to have slide ride dots in open. But it's extreamly uncommon.

My point is that it's in your best interest to take every advantage that is given in a division.


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Exactly!  I should've made myself clearer...  CO is a totally different game, Open is another.  Frame mounted optic provides you with a lot of a greater versatility indeed~ 

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Exactly!  I should've made myself clearer...  CO is a totally different game, Open is another.  Frame mounted optic provides you with a lot of a greater versatility indeed~ 
Gotcha. Maybe "disagree" was a typo?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

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