How do you unload and show clear?

[HesedTech]

15 hours ago, Joe4d said:

NROI basically went full stupid and ignores the not limited to part of the rule, to the point where if a specific example isnt listed it isnt unsafe.

The point NROI makes is use judgement and common sense. It's impossible to make a detailed list of everything "unsafe," so it's up to those running the match to make the final determination. It also gives the shooter the ability to protest the call if it isn't completely clear, as in your case. "If the RO is swept, the Range Master must be called to determine if it was RO interference or a DQ."

 

The goal is to have a fun, fair, and most of all safe match.  When a competitor, range official or anyone forgets it's not all about them we have lost sight of that goal.

 

[Joe4d]

4 hours ago, HesedTech said:

The point NROI makes is use judgement and common sense. It's impossible to make a detailed list of everything "unsafe," so it's up to those running the match to make the final determination. It also gives the shooter the ability to protest the call if it isn't completely clear, as in your case. "If the RO is swept, the Range Master must be called to determine if it was RO interference or a DQ."

 

The goal is to have a fun, fair, and most of all safe match.  When a competitor, range official or anyone forgets it's not all about them we have lost sight of that goal.

 

Thats exactly the opposite of what NROI and USPSA does..  No judgement is allowed, you can witness a blatant unsafe act,,, you know it, shooter knows it, everyone in peanut gallery knows it,, yet if it isnt specifically spelled out as a listed example it doesnt count.  This line: "Examples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to"

Gets ignored for some reason..
RM is always called on a DQ anyways especially at a major.. and a score keeper saying "I saw grease ring," pretty much ended the conversation.
Never said anything about making it about me.. I make it about the rules. and the Discussion is about unloading and showing clear.
Was bringing up that cool dude practices can cause you to commit unsafe gun handling infractions and get sent home early. ULSC is not a timed event and its stupid to treat it like one.

And someone asked about rules and flip and catch.. at one time One of largest clubs in Area 8 considered that unsafe gun handling and would DQ you. Personally I dont care that much its not the flip and catch or the speed rack and reholster itself,, its breaking 180/sweepeing that comes up.

 

 

 

'

 

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

RM is always called on a DQ anyways especially at a major

RM is always called/notified with any DQ according to the rules, even in Level 1 matches. The point was the rule of sweeping the RO during unload has a special addition/exception in the case you brought up.

 

Personally when I'm ROing I couldn't care less if they flip, turn the gun upside down to catch the round, or do it as fast as they can. It's the shooter's time and I'm there to assure things are safe to begin scoring.

 

From the tone of your posts, I take it you don't like USPSA shooting any more and that's fair.  

[RedDotsOnly]

Lots of heavy opinions on this - Do whatever you feel comfortable that properly obeys range commands and call it a day. 

[GunBugBit]

Lately at local matches I’ve been noticing ROs not paying attention to whether my chamber is clear.  So I’m making a point of drawing their attention to my clear chamber so we both agree it’s clear before I do hammer down.

[perttime]

During the weekend, I RO'ed just over 100 IPSC competitors. There were many styles of unloading but the only minor issue was when this tall guy was showing clear up where he could see the chamber but I couldn't. I had to ask him to lower the pistol a bit.

[stick]

I always let the round fall to the ground.  I never got the flip and catch.  Not to say anyone isn't safe, but to me safety is first and foremost.  I'm very clear and deliberate holding the slide open until I hear the RO commands.

[ColoradoNick]

12 hours ago, GunBugBit said:

Lately at local matches I’ve been noticing ROs not paying attention to whether my chamber is clear.  So I’m making a point of drawing their attention to my clear chamber so we both agree it’s clear before I do hammer down.

As it was explained to me, “unload and show clear, IF clear hammer down holster” puts the responsibility on the shooter for confirming clear, not the RO. 

 

[ColoradoNick]

3 hours ago, stick said:

I always let the round fall to the ground.  I never got the flip and catch.  Not to say anyone isn't safe, but to me safety is first and foremost.  I'm very clear and deliberate holding the slide open until I hear the RO commands.

I see a lot of guys flip and catch and then hold the slide open. I don’t mind either way, if you’re competent enough to catch the round and not flag yourself or break 180 go for it. Probably not recommended for a new shooter but if you can competently run a stage you should be able to do this if you choose. Kinda like tapping your head and rubbing your belly at the same time

Edited September 11, 2023 by ColoradoNick

[MHicks]

1 hour ago, ColoradoNick said:

As it was explained to me, “unload and show clear, IF clear hammer down holster” puts the responsibility on the shooter for confirming clear, not the RO. 

 

 

Yes. Ultimately the responsibility is on the shooter but the RO still should be checking as a second layer of safety.

[stick]

5 hours ago, ColoradoNick said:

I see a lot of guys flip and catch and then hold the slide open. I don’t mind either way, if you’re competent enough to catch the round and not flag yourself or break 180 go for it. Probably not recommended for a new shooter but if you can competently run a stage you should be able to do this if you choose. Kinda like tapping your head and rubbing your belly at the same time

I hear you.  I see a lot of shooters do the flip and catch.  I, for one just never did it.  Ultimately, if their safe, I have no problem as long as I see an empty chamber.

[GunBugBit]

9 hours ago, MHicks said:

 

Yes. Ultimately the responsibility is on the shooter but the RO still should be checking as a second layer of safety.

Well said.  If the RO isn’t paying attention enough to see a clear chamber, he might also fail to see that the shooter might have holstered a hot gun.  And then calling “clear” when the range is in fact not cold is an RO doing a crappy job.

[GunBugBit]

Troy McManus, director of NROI, was our RO class instructor last summer.  He specifically addressed flip and catch.  He has no problem with it if it’s done safely.  I do it and so does almost everyone I shoot with.

[Mcfoto]

6 minutes ago, GunBugBit said:

Well said.  If the RO isn’t paying attention enough to see a clear chamber, he might also fail to see that the shooter might have holstered a hot gun.  And then calling “clear” when the range is in fact not cold is an RO doing a crappy job.

You’re forgetting the command, “if clear HAMMER DOWN, holster.” If the gun is hot, it will go bang during hammer down and the shooter wins a free trip to Dairy Queen.

[GunBugBit]

No I’m not forgetting that command.  The RO can say that command as he should but if he didn’t bother to see a clear chamber, he might also not have bothered to see/hear the hammer drop before the shooter holstered his gun.

Edited September 12, 2023 by GunBugBit

[GunBugBit]

I’ve seen guys unload and holster when done with a stage before the RO even starts saying, “If you are finished…”

 

And I saw one of those guys get mad because he thought the RO wasn’t paying attention and wasn’t keeping up, after the RO told him to show him a clear gun and verify a hammer drop after his gun was already holstered.

 

The RO is responsible to verify a cold gun before declaring the range clear.

[LibertySpam]

I just let my rounds go. Sometimes the RO will pick it up for me but the reality of dropping .30 cents on the ground versus the potential safety issues, I just give up the round.... 

[dsmarty386]

i do the flip and catch but if the round flips out higher or at an angle that i cant catch casually, i just let it go.

 

after i catch it, i re-open the gun to show an empty chamber until they tell me to holster. seems safe enough to me

[davidb72]

49 minutes ago, dsmarty386 said:

i do the flip and catch but if the round flips out higher or at an angle that i cant catch casually, i just let it go.

 

after i catch it, i re-open the gun to show an empty chamber until they tell me to holster. seems safe enough to me

This is the way I do it as well.

 

[ddc]

8 hours ago, dsmarty386 said:

i do the flip and catch but if the round flips out higher or at an angle that i cant catch casually, i just let it go.

 

after i catch it, i re-open the gun to show an empty chamber until they tell me to holster. seems safe enough to me

 

7 hours ago, davidb72 said:

This is the way I do it as well.

 

 

Same here. Nobody has ever blinked an eye that I am aware of.

The vast majority of guys I shoot with do it as well.
Multiple clubs across four states; no big deal.
The only time I've ever seen an objection is during an online discussion such as this one.

[perttime]

The people I've seen doing the flip and catch seem quite competent at it. No issues.

 

Our IPSC matches sometimes have much tighter "sectors" than 180 degrees (as allowed by IPSC rules). Less experienced/competent shooters sometimes go uncomfortably near the weak hand side sector marker when clearing their pistols.

[Runswithwood1]

Drop the mag, rack the slide, let the round fall because I cant safely catch it, show clear, trigger, holster. Look for loose round haha

[DenC]

This is what I said last May:




After joining a couple of matches I found this works for me, much simpler:

After removing my mag and stowing it, I rotate the my hand/forearm and gun to about 2 o'clock (I am right handed) then pull on the slide briskly with my left hand and watch where my round falls, rotate the gun upright again to 12 o'clock, while still holding the slide open, look if my chamber is clear, at all times following the ROs commands. After holstering and locking my holster, I pick up my round from the ground, assuming I am sure it is my round. 

[PA_USPSA]

On 9/28/2023 at 10:51 AM, DenC said:

 After holstering and locking my holster, I pick up my round from the ground, assuming I am sure it is my round. 

I put a black dot on each of my primers with a Sharpie so I know the round I pick up is mine.

[Nugget]

4 hours ago, PA_USPSA said:

I put a black dot on each of my primers with a Sharpie so I know the round I pick up is mine.

That’s a great idea! We should all do that lol.