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jbultman

How do you unload and show clear?

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Preface: Limited 40s&w 2011

Recently at a local match after a completing stage, while unloading and showing clear a local shooter had an AD. The extractor slipped off rim of the round and hit the primer, BOOM. Luckly the guys hand was far enough away that he is able to continue shooting and didn’t loose his finger/fingers or hand.

 

It got me thinking I recently got into the habit of covering the ejection port and letting the round fall into my weak hand. If that should happen to me, bad news!!

 

How do you unload and show clear? Let the round drop on the ground? Catch it? Eject it into your strong hand? Something else?

 

Thanks

J

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Flip and catch, or slowly pull the slide to the rear with the port down. So round falls at my toes instead of flying into orbit.

 

FYI the issue you’ve described always happens with a 2011 in .40 and isn’t unheard of. Something about their ejector-to-primer relationship makes it a potential hazard.

 

I have yet to see a 9mm ignite this way, but you’re risking a potential weakhand injury if you cup the ejection port.

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I'm new to USPSA. Only shot 4 matches and I still find myself pretty amped at the end of a stage. I've gotten into the habit of taking a second or two on my last shot to collect myself and then bring the gun down and start the process of clearing and holstering. I try not to get fancy with it.

I remove the mag and put in a pouch. I eject the round onto the ground. I point the firearm down range and pull the trigger to drop the hammer. Then I holster.



Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, anonymouscuban said:

I'm new to USPSA. Only shot 4 matches and I still find myself pretty amped at the end of a stage. I've gotten into the habit of taking a second or two on my last shot to collect myself and then bring the gun down and start the process of clearing and holstering. I try not to get fancy with it.

I remove the mag and put in a pouch. I eject the round onto the ground. I point the firearm down range and pull the trigger to drop the hammer. Then I holster.



Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
 

 

I hope you're taking a second or two to collect yourself after your last show.  I think that's what you meant, LOL

 

Anyway, I agree.  All administrative gun handling should be done in a deliberate manner without any rush or theatricals.

 

I used to do the flip and catch (CZ 75) but my new gun (P-09) won't do it so now I roll the pistol so the ejection port is facing down and let the cartridge fall at my feet.

Edited by elguapo

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43 minutes ago, jbultman said:

Recently at a local match.............

 

You and I have shot together.  Where/when was this?

 

Was it Steve C?

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1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Flip and catch, or slowly pull the slide to the rear with the port down. So round falls at my toes instead of flying into orbit.

 

FYI the issue you’ve described always happens with a 2011 in .40 and isn’t unheard of. Something about their ejector-to-primer relationship makes it a potential hazard.

 

I have yet to see a 9mm ignite this way, but you’re risking a potential weakhand injury if you cup the ejection port.

Yep, I know it’s something that happens in 40. Just never actually saw it, always just heard of it.

 

i don’t want to do the flip and catch, but I also would prefer my round not hitting the ground and needing to grab it.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, elguapo said:

 

You and I have shot together.  Where/when was this?

 

Was it Steve C?

Nope. PM sent 

Edited by jbultman

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I hope you're taking a second or two to collect yourself after your last show.  I think that's what you meant, LOL
 
Anyway, I agree.  All administrative gun handling should be done in a deliberate manner without any rush or theatricals.
 
I used to do the flip and catch (CZ 75) but my new gun (P-09) won't do it so now I roll the pistol so the ejection port is facing down and let the cartridge fall at my feet.
Haha. Yes. That is what I meant. AFTER my last shot.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, anonymouscuban said:

I'm new to USPSA.  bring the gun down and 

remove the mag and put in a pouch. I eject the round onto the ground. I point the firearm down range and pull the trigger to drop the hammer. Then I holster.   (slowly

and deliberately)  
 

I've been shooting IPSC/USPSA for 30 years, and do the exact same thing.     :) 

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The ejector hitting primers has been known for many years and is not unique to any caliber 1911/2011.  The habit of covering the ejection port is not recommended.

 

One of the worse injuries I've seen was with a 45.

 

Never put your hand over the ejection port.

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I practiced the flip and catch before I even shot my first match because I knew that no woman would ever have me if I ejected the chambered round onto the ground.  Since perfecting the "FlipN'Catch" (registered trademark), my bald spot has filled in, my sexual endurance is endless, I can parallel park on the first try everytime, and my accountant now asks me for advice on his taxes.  "FlipN'Catch"... Unload and show clear with CLASS.

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Can't pull off a solid "FlipN'Catch" with a Glock, though.  The round just kind of dribbles out of the chamber.  That may have been 3% of the reason why I started shooting CZs.  Those bad boys lob ejected rounds into the lower stratosphere.

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I thought an accidental discharge was a DQ in USPSA?

 

I've seen people flip and catch and stick their hand in front of the muzzle to catch it.  I've seen new people muzzle themselves doing a "press-check" of a short barrel firearm and I've seen the turn over into the hand method of catching their round.  I'm not risking either my hand or the match to either look cool or save 10 cents (assuming I can't find the round).  Sadly, some SO's are looking for stuff to DQ you on and will call stuff you came close to, but didn't do.  Then again, I'm risk adverse.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, robport said:

I thought an accidental discharge was a DQ in USPSA?

USPSA rule:

10.4.3.1 Exception – a detonation, which occurs while unloading a firearm, is not considered a shot or discharge subject to a match disqualification, however, Rule 5.1.6 may apply.

 

(5.1.6 Firearms must be serviceable and safe.)

 

IPSC has a similar wording for those ejector-strikes-primer situations.

------------

My Unload and Show Clear: remove magazine and put it away, pull the slide back "slowly" and let the round drop, hold the slide back until RO gives next command.

 

(Some ROs want to catch my round. I don't think that is any of their business.)

 

 

Edited by perttime

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19 minutes ago, perttime said:

USPSA rule:

10.4.3.1 Exception – a detonation, which occurs while unloading a firearm, is not considered a shot or discharge subject to a match disqualification, however, Rule 5.1.6 may apply.

 

(5.1.6 Firearms must be serviceable and safe.)

 

IPSC has a similar wording for those ejector-strikes-primer situations.

------------

My Unload and Show Clear: remove magazine and put it away, pull the slide back "slowly" and let the round drop, hold the slide back until RO gives next command.

 

(Some ROs want to catch my round. I don't think that is any of their business.)

 

 

 

Thank you for clearing this up. The round is hitting the ejector not the extractor. This is not an accidental discharge by rule and not a DQ. 

Thought my head was going explode over this thread. Thanks for fixing it before I made an ass out of myself. Putting your hand over the ejection port is a bad idea with any gun. Doing it on a 1911 style gun is worse than bad.

 

As an RO I have no problem if people want to flip and catch but be prepared to show me clear because that is my job and we'll do it over and over until I see clear chamber. I don't want to embarrass anybody but if you stick it in the holster before I see clear you will be taking it out and doing my way.

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So nobody does the tactical squat and look over both shoulders with a grimace on their face?

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8 minutes ago, Matt1911 said:

So nobody does the tactical squat and look over both shoulders with a grimace on their face?

I do that...in the bathroom.

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11 minutes ago, Matt1911 said:

So nobody does the tactical squat and look over both shoulders with a grimace on their face?

 

Should have done that at a match 2 years ago. I would probably have noticed the 3 targets that had no holes in them yet.

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I do "flip and catch" and prefer it to anything else - my hand is away from the port, my face and body and the RO are all pretty far away too, and I don't allow the round to linger while being held only by the extractor. 

 

If I were to modify it, I would still never cover the port and I would seriously avoid any "intermediate speed" of unloading. It would have to be painfully slow, or very fast. I don't want to give gravity a chance to work on a live round that is only held by extractor. That's where the problems happen - going what one believes is "slow," yet having both enough time for the round to move and enough force for the ejector to impact such an unstable round. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, robport said:

  Then again, I'm risk adverse.

 

Probably shouldn't drive a car

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, IVC said:

If I were to modify it, I would still never cover the port and I would seriously avoid any "intermediate speed" of unloading. It would have to be painfully slow, or very fast. I don't want to give gravity a chance to work on a live round that is only held by extractor. That's where the problems happen - going what one believes is "slow," yet having both enough time for the round to move and enough force for the ejector to impact such an unstable round. 

 

 

 

wut-1010.jpg

Edited by elguapo

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Flip and catch, then rack slide to show RO the empty chamber.  Totally safe and keeps RO happy.  Hand over the ejection port is big no-no.

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I always flip and sometimes catch. If the trajectory of the ejected round is less than perfect, instead of reaching awkwardly I just pretend that it wasn't a flip-and-catch, and let the round fall.

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13 minutes ago, lstange said:

I always flip and sometimes catch. If the trajectory of the ejected round is less than perfect, instead of reaching awkwardly I just pretend that it wasn't a flip-and-catch, and let the round fall.

 

The vast majority of good shooters do the same, and I think it's the safest way. Pull the slide back hard so the round doesn't have time to flop around, point the ejection port up and away from yourself and the RO. If the round is easily catchable (95% are easy to catch), then catch it, if not, let it go.

 

And as ltdmstr smartly points out, pull the slide back again so the RO can see the empty chamber, since the flip/catch is usually to quick for them to be sure.

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Catching the ejected round definitely seems to be more of a USPSA thing.  I have never done a "FlipN'Catch" in an IDPA match without the SO losing his mind.  "Pump the brakes there, buckaroo!  I don't know how they unload and show clear where you come from, but 'round these parts decent folk EJECT THAT ROUND ONTO THE GROUND!!!"  Maybe IDPA SOs see the "FlipN'Catch" as a sign of loose living and moral degradation and they are trying to steer us all back onto the straight and narrow.

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