best two

[kpbaer]

Is there any scenario when you don't count the best two hits?

[Bhayden]

It doesn't have to be the best two. If the stage description specifies more or less than two hits, you count the best of the number specified. I have never run into a scenario where we count anything other than the best hits.

[Sarge]

Is there any scenario when you don't count the best two hits?

I have to assume you mean is it always two. A stage can specify best single hit or best three hits etc.

Classifiers have several scenarios where several hits are scored per target

[Edge40]

Yea as far as I know its always the best hits 2 or whatever is specified.

[motosapiens]

Is there any scenario when you don't count the best two hits?

yes, any time the wsb says to count the best 1 hit, or best 3 hits, or best 4 hits. they aren't as common as best two, but they happen not infrequently, even at majors and nationals.

[Flatland Shooter]

Except when the best two hits are 45 caliber and you are shooting a 9mm.

[mreed911]

Except when the best two hits are 45 caliber and you are shooting a 9mm.

If they're A's I'll take them. That or I'll take the reshoot.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Probably won't count The Best Two if one shot is a no-shoot ...

Edited June 14, 2016 by Hi-Power Jack

[MarkCO]

We ran a match a few years ago with five stages, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 hits scored per target. Just can't be more than 6.

[open17]

We ran a match a few years ago with five stages, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 hits scored per target. Just can't be more than 6.

Pretty sure there is/was a classifier that scored best 8.

[RJH]

Mreed, extra holes in a target do not mandate a reshoot.....

[MarkCO]

We ran a match a few years ago with five stages, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 hits scored per target. Just can't be more than 6.

Pretty sure there is/was a classifier that scored best 8

You are right. 12 rounds on a target are max that can be scored. I was thinking of the classifier with 6 rounds times 2.

[High Lord Gomer]

I can think of two more....

9.1.6.1 If a bullet strikes wholly within hard cover, and continues on to strike any scoring paper target or no-shoot, that shot will not count for score or penalty, as the case may be.

9.5.8 Hits visible on a scoring paper target or no-shoot, which are the result of shots fired through the rear of the target or no-shoot, will not count for score or penalty, as the case may be.

[Nightops]

Probably won't count The Best Two if one shot is a no-shoot ...

It still counts, just not in the shooter's favor

[waktasz]

I think what the original guy was asking is do you ever drop a scored hit because of a penalty. I've come across ROs trying to do this no less than 3 times this year. If it's an extra shot or an extra hit, those penalties apply, but you never drop the best hit and score the rest. That's IDPA rules.

[teros135]

My understanding is that we never take away a scorable hit (i.e, there's no rule that does it). Instead, we apply penalties when necessary, and these deduct from the value of the hits, which makes the offending action less profitable. Makes sense.

[bret]

My understanding is that we never take away a scorable hit (i.e, there's no rule that does it). Instead, we apply penalties when necessary, and these deduct from the value of the hits, which makes the offending action less profitable. Makes sense.

Virginia Count.

5 shots per target in WSB, but 5 Alpha's and 1 Charley on the target.

How do you score that if you don't take away a hit?

[rowdyb]

Never taken the RO class, haven't read the whole rule book. So what I'm about to type is a total guess.......

You're supposed to know or be watching them shoot and determine which hit was the last one. It doesn't get scored as a hit, it get's scored as a single procedural. Can't determine which was the extra shot? How are you at the "appealing to the crowd" method of winning a debate?

[okorpheus]

In reference to #17

5 alpha and a pe for extra hit in addition to the pe at the line for extra shot. The order of hits doesn't make any difference. You score the 5 best hits.

9.4.5 In a Virginia Count Course of Fire or a Fixed Time Course of Fire:

9.4.5.1 Extra shots (i.e. shots fired in excess of the number specified in

a component string or stage), will each incur one procedural

penalty. Additionally, during scoring, no more than the

specified number and highest scoring hits will be awarded.

9.4.5.2 Extra hits (i.e. hits on the scoring area of scoring paper targets

in excess of the total number specified in the stage), will each

incur one procedural penalty. Note that hits on hard cover

and/or no-shoots are not treated as Extra Hits

Edited June 25, 2016 by okorpheus

[okorpheus]

If they leave a shot off of another target they get a penalty for stacking shots instead of one for extra shots.

[Kraj]

If they leave a shot off of another target they get a penalty for stacking shots instead of one for extra shots.

For Virginia scoring? If one shot misses the intended target and hits another I score it as a miss on the target with one hole and a extra shot on the target with 3 holes. Best 2 per paper for score.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required

rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer

shots than specified in any string)

I read obviously as intentionally

[Kraj]

My understanding is that we never take away a scorable hit (i.e, there's no rule that does it). Instead, we apply penalties when necessary, and these deduct from the value of the hits, which makes the offending action less profitable. Makes sense.

Virginia Count.

5 shots per target in WSB, but 5 Alpha's and 1 Charley on the target.

How do you score that if you don't take away a hit?

If the wsb says best five score the best 5 and apply penalties as necessary. You don't need to take away any hits

[teros135]

Never taken the RO class, haven't read the whole rule book. So what I'm about to type is a total guess.......

You're supposed to know or be watching them shoot and determine which hit was the last one. It doesn't get scored as a hit, it get's scored as a single procedural. Can't determine which was the extra shot? How are you at the "appealing to the crowd" method of winning a debate?

Actually, no. We don't "watch hits" and can't make a determination of which was the "last one". Yes, we could watch the target - although that's not our job, we have to watch the shooter, etc. and maintain safety - but whatever we "see" on the target during shooting isn't subject to scoring. (This from RO class and various discussions.)

In Virginia count, if there are extra shots taken at the array (as observed at the shooting line, at the time of firing), then there are penalties for each of the shots that are taken in excess of what's specified in the WSB (and/or rule book). That will detract from any benefit derived from the extra shots. Extra shots are scored/penalized at the shooting line and have nothing to do with whatever shows up at the target. (e.g., 6 shots mandated, 7 shots fired = 1 extra shot)

Extra hits are scored only at the target. The best x hits per target ("x" as defined by the WSB) are scored, and if there are more hits on any given target those each earn a penalty. That will detract from any benefit derived from the extra hits, as the penalty is equivalent to two Alphas. (e.g., max of 6 hits mandated, 7 hits observed on the target, score the best 6 + 1 penalty for extra hit.)

"Stacking" is an additional issue in VC. If the competitor "obviously" shoots more than the required rounds on one or more targets, while shooting other targets with fewer shots than specified, that's figured out at the shooting line by observing the shooter while firing. We're either going to see only 1 transition when there should be 3 (for a 4-target array), and the shot cadence will probably indicate two doubles (shot, shot, pause, shot, shot). That's pretty "obvious". Of course, if it isn't obvious, or the RO isn't sure what he/she saw, they can't penalize it. ("Intentional" isn't part of our work, since we score what we can see, not what we think the shooter intended. Many discussions of this on BE.)

(Example of stacking: 4 targets. WSB requires one shot each target, mandatory reload, one shot each target. Shooter shoots 2 each at the first two targets, reloads, shoots 2 each at the other two targets. This strategy eliminates four transitions during the string and hypothetically decreases his time. The penalty is like negating 2 Alphas, so it's not worth doing.)

(BTW, I'm not trying to invite a discussion of fifty-seven ways to score this differently, just to give an example )

[Gary Stevens]

What about a fixed time standards using non-disappearing targets?

[teros135]

What about a fixed time standards using non-disappearing targets?

I'll try this one, Obi-Wan. Fixed time scoring is supposed to use paper targets exclusively and "should, where possible," use disappearing targets (9.2.4.2), I would guess like the Bianchi Cup Practical turners. That would make overtime hits pretty much impossible.

Fixed Time does stipulate a limited time (par time) and a limited number of shots to be fired (9.2.4), so extra shots and overtime shots would be penalized (I believe we're given about a 0.3 second pad after the start of the "stop" signal).

If you used non-disappearing paper targets you'd have to penalize any overtime shots (in addition to extra shots, unless the overtime shot is also an extra), but not hits. The penalty takes care of that. Misses aren't penalized, nor are FTSA (9.2.4.4), so we ignore those.

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