best two

[Gary Stevens]

What is the penalty for a .31 overtime shot?

[teros135]

I would say one procedural per overtime shot.

[Gary Stevens]

Wrong. Try again.

[Nik Habicht]

My understanding is that we never take away a scorable hit (i.e, there's no rule that does it). Instead, we apply penalties when necessary, and these deduct from the value of the hits, which makes the offending action less profitable. Makes sense.

Virginia Count.

5 shots per target in WSB, but 5 Alpha's and 1 Charley on the target.

How do you score that if you don't take away a hit?

You don't take away any hits -- per the rule book you score the best five hits (5 alpha = 25 points) positively and also score (assess) an extra hit penalty for the Charlie....

That will reduce the number of points by ten, to a net of 15 points scored by the competitor.....

Taking away a hit is a different process employed by some other sports -- where you would take away one of the alphas, score 4 alpha and 1 charlie, and then apply any additional penalties, if needed....

[teros135]

Aaah. 9.4.6.2 - overtime shots at static paper targets are penalized the maximum scoring value of the shot. So, 5 points per.

Also, no "extra hit" penalty, just score the "best x" hits (x being the specified number).

Edited June 25, 2016 by teros135

[Nik Habicht]

Wrong. Try again.

Assess one extra shot penalty for any extra shots fired. Walk down to the target(s). Score the required number (and only the required number) of best shots on the target(s). Assess one extra hit procedural for each extra hit on the target faces. Assess one 5 point penalty (The A zone was available, right?) per overtime shot. (If you had multiple strings, multiple overtime penalties are possible....)

[teros135]

Wrong. Try again.

Sorry, forgot to quote Gary. Answer is above. (The rule book is our friend!)

[Nik Habicht]

Aaah. 9.4.6.2 - overtime shots at static paper targets are penalized the maximum scoring value of the shot. So, 5 points per.

Also, no "extra hit" penalty, just score the "best x" hits (x being the specified number).

Oh, no -- the shooter gets the extra hit penalty. What they don't get is positive scoring points for the extra hit. Let's say six hits are required per target, and there's an over time shot. You go down and the targets look like this: 6 alpha, 5 alpha - one mike; 6 alpha and one delta on the final target.

Scoring: T1: 6 alpha

T2: 5 Alpha, 1 Mike

T3: 6 Alpha, one extra hit. then you apply the overtime penalty to the total by subtracting 5 points if calculating manually.....

The shooter does not get credit for more than 30 points on that last target, i.e. the final sentence is meant to say that you don't count the delta as positive points....

ETA -- See 9.4.5.2.

[teros135]

Aaah. 9.4.6.2 - overtime shots at static paper targets are penalized the maximum scoring value of the shot. So, 5 points per.

Also, no "extra hit" penalty, just score the "best x" hits (x being the specified number).

Oh, no -- the shooter gets the extra hit penalty. What they don't get is positive scoring points for the extra hit. Let's say six hits are required per target, and there's an over time shot. You go down and the targets look like this: 6 alpha, 5 alpha - one mike; 6 alpha and one delta on the final target.

Scoring: T1: 6 alpha

T2: 5 Alpha, 1 Mike

T3: 6 Alpha, one extra hit. then you apply the overtime penalty to the total by subtracting 5 points if calculating manually.....

The shooter does not get credit for more than 30 points on that last target, i.e. the final sentence is meant to say that you don't count the delta as positive points....

ETA -- See 9.4.5.2.

Yep, I believe that's correct. 9.4.5.4 deals with extra shots, 9.4.5.2 deals with extra hits. Edited June 25, 2016 by teros135

[Gary Stevens]

The only time you have the equivalent of removing an A hit.

You get a cookie:)

[teros135]

The only time you have the equivalent of removing an A hit.

You get a cookie:)

Yum

[teros135]

His knowledge of these things is why he's the Range Master Yoda and we're all still trying to raise a small rock a few inches off the ground with our puny skill with the Force.

May the Book be with you...

[Gary Stevens]

His knowledge of these things is why he's the Range Master Yoda and we're all still trying to raise a small rock a few inches off the ground with our puny skill with the Force.

May the Book be with you...

I appreciate the kind word, but we learn from our mistakes. Lord knows I've made my fair share, which is often the best teacher.

[teros135]

His knowledge of these things is why he's the Range Master Yoda and we're all still trying to raise a small rock a few inches off the ground with our puny skill with the Force.

May the Book be with you...

I appreciate the kind word, but we learn from our mistakes. Lord knows I've made my fair share, which is often the best teacher.

And thank you for sharing them with us. It's indeed how we all learn. Everyone goes up the ladder together.

[bret]

My understanding is that we never take away a scorable hit (i.e, there's no rule that does it). Instead, we apply penalties when necessary, and these deduct from the value of the hits, which makes the offending action less profitable. Makes sense.

Virginia Count.

5 shots per target in WSB, but 5 Alpha's and 1 Charley on the target.

How do you score that if you don't take away a hit?

If the wsb says best five score the best 5 and apply penalties as necessary. You don't need to take away any hits

It's 5 Alpha's, the best 5 hits.

One Procedural for the extra shot.

One procedural for the extra Hit.

My point was one of the guys said you don't take away hits, in this case they don't get anything for the Charley and they end up with 2 procedurals, one at the box one on the target.

[okorpheus]

If they leave a shot off of another target they get a penalty for stacking shots instead of one for extra shots.

For Virginia scoring? If one shot misses the intended target and hits another I score it as a miss on the target with one hole and a extra shot on the target with 3 holes. Best 2 per paper for score.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required

rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer

shots than specified in any string)

I read obviously as intentionally

If the shooter fired 7 shots at the first target which only required 6, and then only fires 5 at the second target to avoid a penalty for the extra shot, they get the penalty for stacked shots. The obviously fired more than required at the first and less than required at the second.

[Sarge]

If they leave a shot off of another target they get a penalty for stacking shots instead of one for extra shots.

For Virginia scoring? If one shot misses the intended target and hits another I score it as a miss on the target with one hole and a extra shot on the target with 3 holes. Best 2 per paper for score.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required

rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer

shots than specified in any string)

I read obviously as intentionally

If the shooter fired 7 shots at the first target which only required 6, and then only fires 5 at the second target to avoid a penalty for the extra shot, they get the penalty for stacked shots. The obviously fired more than required at the first and less than required at the second.

I don't agree with that at all. That is simply an extra shot and hit on a target and a mike on the other.

Stacking is much more sinister and only applies to one target.

I'm thinking an obvious example would be on a comstock COF when a shooter shoots extra shots on the freestyle string because he knows he sucks weak hand

Edited June 26, 2016 by Sarge

[Nik Habicht]

If they leave a shot off of another target they get a penalty for stacking shots instead of one for extra shots.

For Virginia scoring? If one shot misses the intended target and hits another I score it as a miss on the target with one hole and a extra shot on the target with 3 holes. Best 2 per paper for score.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required

rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer

shots than specified in any string)

I read obviously as intentionally

If the shooter fired 7 shots at the first target which only required 6, and then only fires 5 at the second target to avoid a penalty for the extra shot, they get the penalty for stacked shots. The obviously fired more than required at the first and less than required at the second.

I don't agree with that at all. That is simply an extra shot and hit on a target and a mike on the other.

Stacking is much more sinister and only applies to one target.

I'm thinking an obvious example would be on a comstock COF when a shooter shoots extra shots on the freestyle string because he knows he sucks weak hand

Stacking can't be applied to Comstock......

[Gary Stevens]

When you have seen stacking it is very obvious. It is a mathematical process and very deliberate.

[okorpheus]

If they leave a shot off of another target they get a penalty for stacking shots instead of one for extra shots.

For Virginia scoring? If one shot misses the intended target and hits another I score it as a miss on the target with one hole and a extra shot on the target with 3 holes. Best 2 per paper for score.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required

rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer

shots than specified in any string)

I read obviously as intentionally

If the shooter fired 7 shots at the first target which only required 6, and then only fires 5 at the second target to avoid a penalty for the extra shot, they get the penalty for stacked shots. The obviously fired more than required at the first and less than required at the second.

I don't agree with that at all. That is simply an extra shot and hit on a target and a mike on the other.

Stacking is much more sinister and only applies to one target.

I'm thinking an obvious example would be on a comstock COF when a shooter shoots extra shots on the freestyle string because he knows he sucks weak hand

If there are say 3 targets, each requiring 6 hits. If you fire 7 at one, 5 at the second, and 6 at the third, it cant' be a penalty for extra shots, extra shots are per string. The string required 18 shots and the shooter fired 18 shots.

9.4.5.1 Extra shots (i.e. shots fired in excess of the number specified in a component string or stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Additionally, during scoring, no more than the specified number and highest scoring hits will be awarded.

It would be stacked shots - the shooter obviously fired more than the required number of shots at one target, and fewer than required at another.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. This penalty will not be applied if the written stage briefing specifically authorizes stacked shots.

In the end, I don't guess it matters which you call it, the resulting score is the same. I don't agree with the earlier comment that you can equate obviously to intentionally. It's possible when driving that someone could not be paying attention and run a stop sign. They may not have intended to run the stop sign, but to an observer watching them, it would be obvious that they did in fact run the stop sign.

Edited June 26, 2016 by okorpheus

[ChuckS]

Example: (I think this is what sarge was talking about)

Virginia COF with 2 strings and 3 targets, 12 rounds total. T1 is at 5 yards, T2 at 10 yards and T3 at 25. First string is engage each target with only two rounds each freestyle. The second string is engage each target with only two rounds weak hand only.

On the first string, the shooter skips T1, shoots T2 twice and shoots T3 four times. Second string the shooter shoots T1 four times and T2 twice.

What are the penalties?

edit: got rid of T4

Edited June 26, 2016 by ChuckS

[okorpheus]

4 procedurals for stacked shots, unless the WSB authorized stacked shots. Two targets were insufficiently engaged in each string. Score best 4 hits on each target.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. This penalty will not be applied if the written stage briefing specifically authorizes stacked shots.

Edited June 26, 2016 by okorpheus

[teros135]

4 procedurals for stacked shots, unless the WSB authorized stacked shots. Two targets were insufficiently engaged in each string. Score best 4 hits on each target.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. This penalty will not be applied if the written stage briefing specifically authorizes stacked shots.

Just a note - NROI has issued a clarification for 9.4.5.3 that changes "insufficiently" to "incorrectly" engaged in the string or stage (just so we don't get into arguing semantics around that as we move along here... ).

[okorpheus]

4 procedurals for stacked shots, unless the WSB authorized stacked shots. Two targets were insufficiently engaged in each string. Score best 4 hits on each target.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. This penalty will not be applied if the written stage briefing specifically authorizes stacked shots.

Just a note - NROI has issued a clarification for 9.4.5.3 that changes "insufficiently" to "incorrectly" engaged in the string or stage (just so we don't get into arguing semantics around that as we move along here... ).

That's more than semantics. If the word changes from insufficiently to incorrectly, that makes it 6 procedurals as all of the targets were engaged incorrectly in each string.

[ChuckS]

4 procedurals for stacked shots, unless the WSB authorized stacked shots. Two targets were insufficiently engaged in each string. Score best 4 hits on each target.

9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. This penalty will not be applied if the written stage briefing specifically authorizes stacked shots.

Just a note - NROI has issued a clarification for 9.4.5.3 that changes "insufficiently" to "incorrectly" engaged in the string or stage (just so we don't get into arguing semantics around that as we move along here... ).

Gary owes you a cookie.

There was only one target engaged insufficiently per string. There were 2 targets engaged incorrectly.